Neighbors getting ugly; I know, how can you tell?
As I am out and about, people come up to me and tell me anecdotes about the 3 am/5am bar closing time issue. It seems that the 5 am people are really not as crazy as the 3 am people. I guess it just fits the character of the person, the 5 am people are party people, happy people and all inclusive people. The 3 am people are fighting for a cause for no other reason than habit.
The 3 am people don't mind seeing the Center Grove collapse on itself and end up being a ghost town, as long as they stand on ceremony. Only they get quite nasty about it (to be honest, I have not met any nasty 5 amers yet). Above are brothers Kianosh (3 am, right) and Arman (5 am, left) Kremer, battling it out in this year's King Mango Strut.
I know that many who don't like the "Same AM" posters in store windows are threatening a personal boycott of the businesses who post them, just another way the 3 am people are hurting the Grove.
One friend tried to join one neighborhood group, she was turned down because they said, "We are for 3 am, you don't belong here." My friend is for 5 am. Is this legal and/or a democratic way to be? This group by the way, which supposedly represents one large area of the Grove with thousands of residents, only consists of 37 people. The other few thousand think the opposite of these 37. That's why they don't belong or are forbiddent to belong to this club house.
I was taken off the email list of another homeowners group, in my own neighborhood, because they don't like my politics. I guess I'll have to figure it out myself if a lose dog is running wild or if someone is breaking into cars in my hood.
By the way, many of these very same rude people walked out of the Village Council meeting en mass, after they had their say. They had no interest in what the Village Council or anyone else had to say, it was all about them. These are your neighbors folks.
The Village Council is actually going to make a decision on 3 am/5am this Thursday night.
posted by Tom Falco at 11:00 AM
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30 Comments:
We all know exactly who you are talking about, and we all know the hateful leader of this group. I wonder why you don't just call them out.
37 miserable human beings.
Okay, the time has come. It's time to vote. I hope the nastiness and name calling (from both sides) on this blog and in the community will stop. Everyone (both sides) please present your case from this point on without slamming the other side. Your energy now should not be wasted on trying make others see your "opponent" as stupid and childish; it's to win. If you make your case well enough, you will win. There are people in the middle who love the Grove and want to do the right thing, but are frustrated by the fighting.
The Village of Center Grove Neighborhood Association...Used to be a nice, reasonable, neighborly, group of folks...until Sarnoff took it over.
The neighborhood groups are a disgrace and a joke all controlled by Sarnoff who gives them their orders by bribing them with sidewalks and street paving and gyms in the parks and big walls and traffic circles and whatever it takes to bribe them and keep them quite. They are his docile and good little sheep just waiting to drink his coolaid when the time comes. They have no minds of their own, they are mindless fools who follow the king fool.
if they get the 5am thing passed (which I personally hope they do), will anyone other than moe's get to stay open that late? will someone buy temple's license/venue and reopen a club there?
How can we get extensions to the licenses that other places like crazy pianos, sandbar, cudas, etc. all have? let them all stay open till 5am if they feel like it.
Are you kidding? You haven't met any nasty supporters of the 5am closing hour? Do you even read the comments that are posted on your own blog???
Do you even read your own posts???
I am so sick of reading the vitriol and the non-stop posts that blame the demise of Grove business because of a closing hour.
Well then why are the neighborhood groups removing those who disagree from their mailing lists and banning them from joining? Open up the Groups and emails to all please.
The neighborhood groups have banned those who disagree with them. Has Mr. Moes or Greenstreets or Georges banned any of these groups who disagree with them? It think not, even though they would love to I have been told but they have too much class for that.
That's what we love about you, Grape! You are just like accupuncture, sticking the needle in where it hurts and making us gauge our reactions. Keep it up!
Anon 11:08, Grape cohort, why don't you call them out.
11:21 anon Not 37, or 107, more like 9007 of us. Take a hike.
So much for no name calling. All I can tell about this situation is that both sides are being nasty.
I'd say if a commissioner is getting me sidewalks, and paving streets, putting in gyms and rotaries then he's doing a great job.
Well Jack, that would make you pretty selfish, and have a rather shallow and narrow field of vision. There have only been improvements in one discrete section of the grove in the last 5 years, aside from the half assed sidewalk bricking.*
*I will not consider the building of those black eyesores an improvement - it like the circles and other pet projects are a waste of money.
Who is the head of the Center Grove group? Does she read this and have anything to say in response to the commentary or accusation that they only allow membership for those who agree? I don't know her, or the answers to these questions, but I'd like to hear some.
Well thanks to that late night party crowd, a poor cyclist was killed on Key Biscayne, so there's a result of the 5 am party crowd
So, what you're saying is that the 3am rule is working perfectly and all danger has ceased???!?!?!
Get a clue.
Ps. I'll sell you a rock that repels bear attacks if you're interested - It's only a grand and comes with a money back guarantee.
"Well thanks to that late night party crowd, a poor cyclist was killed on Key Biscayne, so there's a result of the 5 am party crowd"
I'll try to be polite here.
Huh? As an avid cyclist myself, I'm also appalled by this accident, I've spent hours e-mailing the officials about it. I'm tired of seing serious car/bike collisions, for years here in Miami, the 3rd worst City in the USA for that. But that's another issue.
Actually, drunk-drivers kill and have killed for decades, everywhere in the world, in every City in the world. That's not the variable. What can change are many other things, like better signs and better education, both for cyclists and car drivers. I happen to be both, and and can see the mistakes and lack of education on both sides.
Key Biscayne is actually quite safe, compared to most places in Miami. We run and cycle there most days. There's a REAL bike lane there, but it's it's always a dangerous sport. It's a LOT more dangerous in Sarnoff's County, the City of Miami. I've been dealing with the issue for years, back to Mayor Manny's days.
Bottom line: There's a huge need for education, Signs, Real Bike lanes, and faster help when accidents occur (I've seen too many fallen cyclists, seriously wounded, waiting for half an hour until a cop shows up)
It's just a mess here in Miami. period. And it has NOTHING to do with 3am or 5am closings. It's about Law enforcement and common sense. Carlos Iglesia
BTW, this fatal accident occurred at about 8:15am on a Sunday morning, when this lunatic was heading back home to Key Biscayne. 3 hours after closing time there. Or here in Miami. he was probaly messed up way after 5 am. or 3am. On many drugs, is my guess. He had a history of erratic behavior, to put it midly. You don't avoid such rare ocurrences by just SUDDENLY shutting down places at 3, 1 or 4am. It's been that way for DECADES in South Florida, until Papa Sarnoff attempted to send us back to sleep at a certain hour, like we're kids in a communist country.
As a cyclist for years, I'll tell you that's not the problem, AT ALL.
It's Law Enforcement, better roads, better rules, better signs, bad city for cycling, period. So we take our freaking chances. regardless of the stupid 3am rule. CI
Taking advantage of that poor man's death in Key Biscayne, for either side of this debate, is deplorable. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
This whole debate (at least on this blog) has become childish and annoying. Defend your point by sticking to your point. From what I can tell, the 3 am-ers think the 5 am-ers are stupid and vis-versa. I want to know what the benefit is of each party without hearing how moronic the opposing side is. And please don't call me an idiot for asking.
Thank you.
I have a very hard time understanding why the owner of Temple even tried to open a club directly next door to a huge 4 Star Hotel. This same Hotel has a contract with FedEx pilots for overnights besides its own guests and condo owners. So when the music starts, with outside speakers (no no no) and even with their own inside system blasting what is this hotel to do. So the guests complain to the front desk that they will not pay for their room, and will never return. So one of these business will not be able to hang in there. I noticed a For Sale sign on Temple. Next time do a study of your neighbors.
The Chamber took a poll of it's 156 members and out of the respondants
a whopping %80 are in favor of bringing back the 5:00am!
Once the Village Council takes their vote and also recommends that the 5:00am be revisited how can Mark and his lemmings have a leg to stand on?
Just asking.
CPayan, Sarnoff has been exploiting the issue of danger to bicyclists for ages. So why should questions not be asked? I wonder where the drunk driver got drunk? And why was he driving when his driver's license had been taken away.
Listen up!
The driver that struck and killed the cyclist was an accident waiting to happen. The guy had over 20 moving violations on his license prior to the accident.
How does anyone even know where he might have become intoxicated? The incident happened after 8:00am,
he could have been just about anywhere in Sarnoff's district, except the Grove.
I give up. Good night.
It's probably not a good idea to put a label a person according to her beliefs.
Grape, please let this issue fade away. It's redundant, now.
Tony, the issue will fade away when the whole city has the Same AM.
Ok, I have to address a few things:
A) The horrible accident and loss of life in Key Biscayne has nothing to do with the debate at hand. The end.
B) In re the anon talking about Temple - you obviously have been in the grove about a week. Please wait longer or do some research before forming an opinion. There was a club there before Temple, called Flavour - and it operated with success for many years. There's no reason why a club cannot exist next to a hotel - but a hotel in that place, or in any city, needs to ensure quiet for its guests by installing double-pane glass and proper insulation, which I'm sure that fine establishment has. End of story, and good day to you.
C) To anyone who ever again asks for the arguments on each side of the issue - you are lazy and/or fresh off the turnip truck. Go back and read probably 1000 plus comments on the issue here, and various discussions in other outlets. Here's the fast version - why should one little area of business have its trade restrained in such a way when there has been no benefit of any kind in doing so? Its not a trade-off it's a give away, and it's killing the grove businesses. No one will open here, and those here are closing left and right.
Sorry if I'm abrupt today, but the stupidity and laziness get to me sometimes.
If someone cares enough to want to know the logistics of each side, why not tell them? In all the mud-slinging, some people may have tuned out or lost the point. Calling someone stupid (they could be quite smart) and lazy (their time is probably consumed with other issues) for asking for clarification is not helping at all.
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