How the peacock story went down
This is the tale or tail(?) of the peacocks in the Grove:
One neighbor on Micanopy, Murray Epstein, MD, felt it was his job to rid the North Grove of the Peacocks. Not only his street, but the whole North Grove according to emails that went back and forth over the past year. I live in the North Grove, so I do resent that.
Along with Dr. Epstein, Bryan P. Abboud, Charles Valenti, Kenneth Tobin, Joshua Medvin and Eduardo Garcia-Allen, all Micanopy residents, signed one letter asking for results from the Village Council.
Dr. Epstein also hounded Commissioner Marc Sarnoff and his Chief of Staff Ron Nelson non-stop and I truly feel that both Sarnoff and Nelson were on the birds' side, but when you have a squeaky wheel, after awhile, you need to do something. It was either get rid of the peacocks or the doctor, I wish it had been the latter.
Village Council head at the time, Michelle Niemeyer, was also in on the emails and conversations. The subject came before the village council. There was even a peacock count, to see how many there actually were. I never did see a final figure on that.
Dr. Epstein and the others felt that their street was shouldering all the expense and problems of the peacocks. Apparently this was all open to the public, but I usually don't miss much and apparently I missed this and many others had as well.
The final blow was when an email came from Assistant City Manager Roger Hernstadt on Monday, December 15, 2008 that said:
The administration’s position is as follows:
The peafowl may be humanely captured and legally transport to a rural “adoption” farm by a licensed trapper at the property owners discretion and expense.
A trapper named Jeff Wood was hired, he requested written permission to remove the birds, since apparently he did not want the final responsibility. They found the Redland farm, they notified the Discovery Channel and apparently the Herald and the deed was done over the past few months.
Dr. Epstein requested that one male and one female remain in the Grove. Generous guy he is.
So that's the tale of the peacocks. I have asked Dr. Epstein for some sort of statement explaining his side, although we can all agree that Micanopy was being overrun by the birds.
It would have been so much nicer to maybe spead them out into other areas of the Grove, rather than send them toSiberia the Redland. It looks like much more than just the reported 15 were removed, the North Grove and the South Grove seem to be empty now.
A vast majority of the neighbors enjoy them and appreciate them. It's a shame that a few big shots, like a doctor and another who works for an aerospace company and others, were able to rid the Grove of their mascot.
Previous stories here and here.
One neighbor on Micanopy, Murray Epstein, MD, felt it was his job to rid the North Grove of the Peacocks. Not only his street, but the whole North Grove according to emails that went back and forth over the past year. I live in the North Grove, so I do resent that.
Along with Dr. Epstein, Bryan P. Abboud, Charles Valenti, Kenneth Tobin, Joshua Medvin and Eduardo Garcia-Allen, all Micanopy residents, signed one letter asking for results from the Village Council.
Dr. Epstein also hounded Commissioner Marc Sarnoff and his Chief of Staff Ron Nelson non-stop and I truly feel that both Sarnoff and Nelson were on the birds' side, but when you have a squeaky wheel, after awhile, you need to do something. It was either get rid of the peacocks or the doctor, I wish it had been the latter.
Village Council head at the time, Michelle Niemeyer, was also in on the emails and conversations. The subject came before the village council. There was even a peacock count, to see how many there actually were. I never did see a final figure on that.
Dr. Epstein and the others felt that their street was shouldering all the expense and problems of the peacocks. Apparently this was all open to the public, but I usually don't miss much and apparently I missed this and many others had as well.
The final blow was when an email came from Assistant City Manager Roger Hernstadt on Monday, December 15, 2008 that said:
The administration’s position is as follows:
The peafowl may be humanely captured and legally transport to a rural “adoption” farm by a licensed trapper at the property owners discretion and expense.
A trapper named Jeff Wood was hired, he requested written permission to remove the birds, since apparently he did not want the final responsibility. They found the Redland farm, they notified the Discovery Channel and apparently the Herald and the deed was done over the past few months.
Dr. Epstein requested that one male and one female remain in the Grove. Generous guy he is.
So that's the tale of the peacocks. I have asked Dr. Epstein for some sort of statement explaining his side, although we can all agree that Micanopy was being overrun by the birds.
It would have been so much nicer to maybe spead them out into other areas of the Grove, rather than send them to
A vast majority of the neighbors enjoy them and appreciate them. It's a shame that a few big shots, like a doctor and another who works for an aerospace company and others, were able to rid the Grove of their mascot.
Previous stories here and here.
posted by Tom Falco at 1:30 PM
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40 Comments:
These absoulutely disgusting. The City of Miami has broken the law! They state The administration’s position is as follows:
The peafowl may be humanely captured and legally transport to a rural “adoption” farm by a licensed trapper at the property owners discretion and expense.
That is BULLSHIT! That is a position that the City took after being threatened by BIGSHOT Doctors! The City Attorney's positions is just the opposite! Grape you MUST get a paper trail of this whole event. We have been lied to by someone. Let's get to the bottom of this story!
Why is it that a few people should be able to decide something for the rest of the community? I always thought the peacocks made a charming addition to our neighborhood. Are they ALL gone now? Can we get them back?
I think we should all sue the residents of Micanopy, we have their names now, let's go after these fools.
We must question the legality of this action. Who authorized this and how much did it cost. Where is Commissioner Sarnoff? Doesn't he represent us or are we now being represented by Dr. Epstein? This is so wrong.
You can not sue these people. They OWN the people in power now.
Grape have you investigated that one of the comments on another blog indicates that some of these birds have been killed? Any truth here?
"Miami law protects the birds from trappers because the city is considered a bird sanctuary, and peafowl, as they are scientifically known, are not considered livestock.
Sarnoff says the city is exploring several different options to fix the peacock problem.
One plan is to relocate some birds to other neighborhoods interested in taking them in. Another is to put them up for adoption to bird activists with better facilities for keeping them in captivity. A third, more complex scenario would be to train the birds to quit trespassing on the property of those residents who want them gone.
"The city is willing to look into that. I don't know if they're willing to pay for it," Sarnoff said."
"Because this city has designated itself a bird sanctuary, peacocks and peahens cannot be legally trapped or killed. And so far, officials are siding with the animals.
“My primary concern is the peacocks,” said Marc Sarnoff, the city commissioner from Coconut Grove. “I want to make that very clear.”
Mr. Sarnoff defended the territorial birds as a living embodiment of Coconut Grove’s identity as a bohemian, anything-goes neighborhood. Million-dollar homes and Mercedes-Benzes notwithstanding, he said, “it’s what the Grove is all about.”
Yeah, right, Mr Sarnoff.
Good riddance
Here's an idea. If you go to this site, you can download peacock screams, chirps, howls and calls. let's all build mix tapes of peacock noises and drive past doc epstein's place at odd hours cranking peacock music. I guarantee it'll put him in a fowl mood.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Peacock_Sounds.aspx
Friends,
I submit to you thqat the Peacocks are "grandfathered" in and have "squatters rights" under the animal protection laws.
Under the Neighborhood Comprehensive Plan, there should be a budget for their care and guardianship. If you are going
to amend the Plan, in order to relocate them, this discussion should be part of a public forum and debate, under the
guidelines of democractic process.
Doris
How sad. All summer, my son and I enjoyed walking by the peacocks on our way to preschool in S. Grove - and then they seemed to disappear. A few weeks later, I saw a mama with 3 babies and I figured perhaps they had been out of site to birth & protect the little ones. How disappointing to think they've been removed!
I understand that the birds aren't perfect neighbors, but they are simply the most charming thing about Coconut Grove.
There are plenty of happy Peacocks located in Crandon Park at the former zoo. Perhaps our Grove Peacocks, residence and visitors would be happy if we relocated our Peacocks to Peacock Park and Kennedy Park. Strolling through our neighborhood they could even help slow down traffic on Bay Shore Drive and eliminate the need for a speed trap near Grove Towers.
I am for leaving the birds alone.
However, a resident may remove any animal from their private property.
Grape...have you or anyone reading this contacted the P.E.T.A. organization? Thanks.
Can we relocate Dr. Epstein and his friends to Crandon Park?
I agree with the poster who suggested that we all drive by the Dr.'s home, playing our peacock sounds (at appropriate levels, of course, so as to not cause the good Doctor any distress).
Also, I now have a new idea where to walk my dog.
Now, Dr. can we go after the cats?
I wonder what you did with your kids when they cried or pooped. Naw, I don't want to think about that.
Seagulls and pigeons are getting on my nerves, Dr. Epstein. They poop too much. Could you help with them while you're busy eradicating the other birds?
Of course those birds were beautiful, everytime I saw one or the flock, I would slow down and smile inside. On occasion I've heard their call, perhaps a mating call. And it was loud. Try to imagine living around a whole flock, morning, noon and night, in the A.M., endlessly, trying to sleep. No garden, fresh vegs and I hazzard a guess, they probably eat flowers and the fruit. I bet the doctor probably loved those animals too. What if the doctor has a bad heart and needed his rest? They could stay in my yard for several months, perhaps a year, but then it's your turn.
I, like many others, find the birds somewhat charming and terrific traffic barriers. However, my empathy lies with the residents of Micanopy who have to deal with the noise and mess. I think that many of the people who disagree with the birds' removal simply aren't aware of just how disrupting of an impact these birds can have when they overpopulate a very small area. I would like to see, in any case, a more civil tone taken toward our neighbors instead of some of the attacks I have read in these posts.
As nice as it is to see them almost every day, I'm sure glad I live on the other side of 17th Ave.
My understanding is that if they are on your personal property, you can trap them and re-locate them. If that is all that happened here, then it's not that big of a deal.
However, if one were to trap any on public property, or the property of another, or to lore the birds onto their property to trap them, they have technically violated the law.
Either way, the attacks on the people who took them in are unjustified and our usual reactionaries just being themselves. It's ok to take time to stop and think people, particularly before calling people thieves.
The big question is: why haven't Marc Sarnoff and/ or Ron Nelson responded publicly? You guys hiding out or asleep at the wheel here?
I like Jobie's offer to let Dr. Epstein live on his lawn for a year.
(Perhaps I misread.)
This should not have been done illegally or without community debate.
The birds crap in my yard, too, and I want them back.
We also need help from Dr. Epsein, Mr. Sarnoff and the Village Council to clean up Kennedy Park, for instance, constantly littered with industrial quantities of Dog poop.
Try running in the grass or exercise at the sand stops, often filled with poop and literally Buzzing of hundreds of desease-ridden filthy flies. It's the LAW to pick after the dogs, so since we're getting so "clean" in the Grove, can you help enforce those Laws, Doc, Village and City Hall people, instead of kicking out our beautiful, legal and protected peacocks?
Contact P.E.T.A. at info@peta.org.
The PETA comments seem a bit ridiculous. I don't agree with the relocation, but no one is alleging harm or mistreatment. Let's try to keep the focus on the issue. That is the only way to be taken seriously versus just being incendiary.
ANA:
The focus is that we have been lied to my our elected officials. What did Sarnoff know and when did he know it?
Anon 4:21 is right on. How is peacock poop any different from the appalling conditions of our parks. Most now called Kennedy Poop Park. The park's conditions are disgusting. Who paid for this trapper, if it's taxpayer money I want a refund.Garpe who footed the trapper's bill? And how much?
We need to start an email campaign to PETA. I have already sent them a letter. Having to put up with living next to Dr. Epstein I think it is important for the community to partner up with PETA.
Contact them:
PETA
501 Front St., Norfolk, VA 23510
Tel: 757-622-PETA (7382)
Fax: 757-622-0457
Campaigns@peta.org
info@peta.org
Send emails to both email addresses and include the articles from Grapevine.
Yeah peacocks are pretty and all but I sure as heck wouldn't want 40 of ANYTHING taking over my property, crapping on my lawn, my roof, my car, my lawn furniture, my laundry line, my bike shed.
Before suggesting that we terrorize the folks on Micanopy you might want to find out what it's like to have these animals climbing all over your home and being a absolute nuisance.
Walk a mile in your neighbor's peacock poo covered shoes Groveites. I expect more from you. Leave the folks on Micanopy alone.
Maybe the Redland farm can bring a family or two back and drop them off in other parts of the Grove. Just not North Grove.
Just sent an email to PETA, thanks for the email addresses. If it is against ordinance to trap the Peacocks then who overrode the ordinance. Can someone tell me how you can override an ordinance, there are a dozen I need to override.
There is a full article, complete with facts, on the Peacock Witness Relocation Program.
They were moved, legally, by the crew from the Discovery Channel's show Verminator.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/communities/story/1207771.html
Alas the article doesn't point fingers, make wild accusations or threats, and doesn't attempt to implicate Commissioner Sarnoff at every turn, so some readers of the Grape might feel less than satisfied after reading.
Please stop comparing private property to a public park that is funded by Dept of Homeland Security. Apples to Apples folks.
I linked to the story yesterday, why do we need to link it again?
The reason there is a problem on Micanopy is that there is an elderly lady that feeds them liuke clockwork twice a day. se alos feeds stary cats. The neighbors should spek to her instead!
We have a huge problem with feral cats and constant kittens being born. Why don't we take care pf that instead! Sylvia Cherry
Sylvia:
The cate issue is a huge problem as raccoons love cat food so where there are cats there are raccoons. I think we need to round up all the wild animals in the Grove. All to the farm.
The peacocks might poop everywhere but doggone it, it is our poop and nobody has the right to steal our birds.
How sad. It doesn't look like our peacocks will get returned to their rightful home. Bloody shame! Hopefully, someone's bedrace theme will honor our pilfered peacocks.
Can anyone really fault the doc on this? He did exactly what he should have done.
He determined there was a nuisance.
He discussed the issue with his neighbors and developed a concensus.
He went to the city to discuss the problem.
The city set the guidelines to solve the problem.
He put together a way to solve the problem, using the parameters set by the city, by which all the animals lived and homeowners were free of the nuisance.
I can think of more than a few people who would have used poison and/or birdshot to solve this problem. Hats off to the doc for humanely preserving our wildlife.
4813...nicely said! But what the City of Miami did was against the law. Madam City Attorney has advised that this action is illegal. Bottom line .. The Doc did WRONG!
Grape..where you able to obtain any written documention?
Anon 9:06am
If the City attorney has said the removal was illegal, then not only the Dr. Epstein and all involved should pay according to the law, also all the Peacocks should be returned to their long time habitat in Coconut Grove, immediately.
Anon @ 9:08am - I think 4813 stated the facts nicely. The Doc went about this the right way. If he was told to do something by the City, and the City was incorrect or misled him, it is not his fault. However, I dont see how removing the birds was "illegal". They were a nuisance, much like iguanas and pythons have become in other parts of South Florida, so the Doc did the most humane thing to rid himself of the nuisance and had them carted away in accordance with what the City told him his legal rights were.
I like the peacocks as much as the next person. I like when I have company from out of town and they get to see some crossing Tigertail. However, I support my neighbors in Coconut Grove first. I guarantee that the vast majority of the people who are ready to nail this guy to a cross do not have peacocks in their backyards crapping on everything and causing a disturbance. Basically what youre saying is that you dont give a crap about anyone but yourselves. Youre all for the peacocks and dont care about your Coconut Grove neighbor. Thats sad. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Under state law peacocks are a protected species!
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