The Grand Avenue retail complex
Some people have asked me what I think of the Point Group's land use change request to build the massive retail complex on Grand Avenue, in the west Grove -- Village West. The city's advisory board voted to defer the vote.
I hadn't blogged about it because I didn't really have an opinion yet. I guess the real question is, what do the residents think? The neighborhood behind Grand Avenue, which would be affected, is the original Grove. That's where it all started. Will this project uproot the community? Will it bring customers to the area? Will people actually venture down that far from the Central Grove area?
It would be great to have a continuation of Grand Avenue. I usually stop at the car wash or the Farmer's Market on weekends and don't really venture down that way. Will I continue walking down Grand Avenue if the large retail complex is built? Will you?
If a supermarket, like Publix, is part of the mix. I will. Maybe even Trader Joe's, although that might fit perfectly in the old Borders Books location.
I think the current residents should have the final say -- not the developer, not the city's advisory group -- the actual people who will be uprooted should have a say. It's their neighborhood that is changing. Do we honestly need another retail complex? CocoWalk and Mayfair, especially, have so many boarded up storefronts. Is this a project to line the developer's pockets or to help the Grove community?
Maybe I did have an opinion after all. But of course, I always do. :)
I hadn't blogged about it because I didn't really have an opinion yet. I guess the real question is, what do the residents think? The neighborhood behind Grand Avenue, which would be affected, is the original Grove. That's where it all started. Will this project uproot the community? Will it bring customers to the area? Will people actually venture down that far from the Central Grove area?
It would be great to have a continuation of Grand Avenue. I usually stop at the car wash or the Farmer's Market on weekends and don't really venture down that way. Will I continue walking down Grand Avenue if the large retail complex is built? Will you?
If a supermarket, like Publix, is part of the mix. I will. Maybe even Trader Joe's, although that might fit perfectly in the old Borders Books location.
I think the current residents should have the final say -- not the developer, not the city's advisory group -- the actual people who will be uprooted should have a say. It's their neighborhood that is changing. Do we honestly need another retail complex? CocoWalk and Mayfair, especially, have so many boarded up storefronts. Is this a project to line the developer's pockets or to help the Grove community?
Maybe I did have an opinion after all. But of course, I always do. :)
posted by Tom Falco at 7:46 AM
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38 Comments:
So many topics its hard to find a starting point.
Bottom line I believe it’s a good thing for the Grove, the plan includes houses and condos. They are also having groups to help residents with the transition. The development is limited in size, cleans up that area, adds retail and is a starting point for connecting the west to the central grove. The decision should be based on what is best for the Grove, including the neighborhood but not limited. From what I have read they are taking many steps to improve the Grove, maintain the culture and help the current residents.
I for one think we would be real idiots to miss this opportunity and continue to allow other areas of Miami to prosper while the Grove continues to slow down. I do not see another opportunity like this coming anytime soon. Plus Grand Ave is a commercial road, and it sure would be nice to use the Grand Ave entrance again, instead of shying away from it.
This project will simply remove the current residents. It will not benefit their neighborhood. They do not have to money to live in any of the new condo's. What would benefit the local community will not be done in this project. Why do we not have this kind of project on Tigertail? I am sure there is an area that is zoned commercial, it would generate a lot of traffic and revitalize the area.
I think they should leave the residents alone. I live there and have lived there for my entire life. I agree that there are a lot of improvments that can be done, but all it really seems like the people care about doing is kicking us out and bringing in those that are deemed exceptable. Like I said I was born & raised in the West Grove it is home to be. I don't do drugs, I don't sell drugs, I'm not involved in anything Illegal I just happen to live in an area that is known for it. It's not fair to judge people because of the area they come from. Miami itself is extermely over crowded. It's a privilege to have a backyard for your children to play in. I'd rather have a backyard then a Balcony anyday. Stop over develeopement and start thinking of news ways to improve the Historic West Grove that doesn't involve tearing up it's roots.
All good points...I am sensitive to the current residents. Which is the obvious big issue, if not this would probably move forward with little discussion. However this will probably increase the local neighborhood value, it will also bring many jobs to the area. The idea of Tigertail is not a bad one, Tigertail between 27th and Mary St would fit nicely. Specially after they improve the 27th ave project. If it was up for the discussion I would support that as well.
leave em alone.
btw, i though sony music was moving into the old borders location. any update?
Pretty much anything is better than what it is there now. It is important that we are honest about it, I mean you drive on Grand av and only thing you see are pregnant women and people smoking and some on bicycles crossing in front of your car, you got to drive 10 miles per hour otherwise you hit someone.
anon above...so what if that's what it's like, you want to make it something it's not?
As a Grove resident I attended one of the Developers meetings in which they presented to the Home Owners Tenants Association (HOTA) and it seemed that their plan was being done with the roots of the community in mind. Also, speaking to some of the long time West Village residents they said this development was a long time overdue. I for one would be happy to have a grocery that I could walk to and hopefully be able to work in walking distance to my home.
Everything thing on Grand west of the post office (well, maybe including the post office) should be bulldozed. I'm usually in favor of market forces taking the lead, but the market for housing in West Grove has been warped by section 8 housing subsidies. If the market was really driving development in the Grove, the West Grove would have been gentrified a long time ago.
Those who think that Tigertail between 27th and Mary St. hasn't already been commercialized are either blind or morons. The Ritz Carlton built a nice concrete wall where trees used to be. Then there's the Residence Inn, and of course BVI / Manhattan Transfer has been there at the corner for many years. I don't know what else you could squeeze in their without goring somebody's ox.
Looks like an urban-planners dream. Did you notice the Miami Herald's editorial today. Don't move the UDB line to accommodate more development. There's plenty of great spots that already have the infrastructure. This is a prime example!
I like the four-story / five-story height in the architectural rendering.
A Publix or Trader Joe's would be a god-send for the West Grove and the Grove in general!
TO ANON 10:06AM
Apparently you are just as ignorant as the rest of them...
"Pregnant women and people smoking and some on bicycles crossing in front of your car, you got to drive 10 miles per hour otherwise you hit someone."
Listen I can go down to Miami Beach to see the exact same thing.
Better start finding other excuses because frankly this one doesn't cut it.
The pregnant women etc comment is sheer racial prejudice -- if they were white, I am sure the anon above wouldn't have made the comments... and if the comment were not 100% racist that jerk would have dared sign his/her name.
Having said that, I would certainly welcome a pedestrian oriented mixed use development all the way to 37th avenue and even beyond.
One of the problems with the Grove, nice at it is, is that it is really tiny. You go through the hassle of parking and waste time in traffic... but in reality, you can walk through it in 15 minutes.
A pedestrian mixed use development would be in the same scale as a Lincoln Road, which is just about the only place one can go to "stroll" to use an old fashioned term.
The residents will be displaced? Yep. Such is life. There were tons of old jewish people displaced from South Beach and Lincoln Road. It seems to be the law of the land that eventually people get displaced.
Given all the possible alternatives, a "grown up" Lincoln Road attracting affluent Coral Gables, Grove and South Miami residents would be a huge benefit to the area.
I THINK ITS A GREAT IDEA.GRAND AVENUE IS A DANGEROUS PLACE, WHO NEEDS IT. THIS DEVELOPEMENT IS EXCITING.I'M TIRED OF LIVING NEXT TO SLUM WITH ALL IT BRINGS,, THE CRIME IS GETTING WORSE.ALL YOU BLEEDING HEARTS OBVIOUS DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ON A DAILY BASIS. BUT I DO AND I'M SICK OF IT.THIS AREA HAS BEEN BRINGING DOWN THE GROVE FOR A LONG TIME..
I don't trust another megacomplex. Cocowalk is bad enough.
ANON 11:26
"ALL YOU BLEEDING HEARTS OBVIOUS DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ON A DAILY BASIS."
Ignorance at it's best. It's due to people like you that the world is such a bad place. I'd LOVE to actually see you "deal with it" honey.
Before you put your foot in your mouth, know what you're talking about.
It cracks me up when people accuse those who long for law and order of making the world "a bad place."
Many of these residents are just a step away from homelessness. Many are families with children. The plan for those residents seems pretty vague. This whole thing is about gentrification of the grove. First it was decided to remodel the street, which put many businesses that serviced the west grove out of business. Now they want to do away with affordable housing. That should get rid of the residents below a certain income bracket. The fact that Miami has a condo glut and many stores are empty in the Grove has no bearing on whether we need more condos and stores.
"Knock 'em down, build it up. Get rid of the blacks and the poor. Don't care where they go, just as long as they don't live here." This seems to sum up the attitude of many supporters of this plan. This plan could actually result in homeless children!!
Perhaps we could relocate these people in the new baseball stadium. After all, the commission has addressed that issue but seems to forget our affordable housing crisis. Until affordable housing is properly addressed, this project should stay on the back burner.
Different people get upset by different things. I think Hooters and Cheesecake factory make the world a worse place. I support revitalizing the west grove, but if a megacomplex goes in on Grand, the developer has to charge a high rent to make back a profit, and there is no incremental change to the neighborhood. Besides lower-income residents being unable to afford to stay, small and unique mom and pop restaurants and boutiques will be immediately priced out of the market and we will get a bunch of paneras, gaps and chain stores just like we have at the cocowalk.
Yes, middle class white folks aren't going to walk past 4 blocks of section 8 housing and empty lots to get to the Dickies store. But there are other alternatives than washing your hands of it and giving the go ahead to one single devloper. The grove still has a chance to protect it's diversity--it would be a shame to see it bulldozed and replaced with yet another generic mall.
I was not accusing anyone of making the world a bad place because of change. Change can be a very good thing. When people are called slums because of where they live, that is when I take offence. This area is the Grove.Tear it all down and build high-rise condominiums, million dollars homes, and expensive little stores. That is what everyone wants right? Make it accessible to only people of means and tourists. That would make all the Hoodlums go away, no more crack heads, pregnant teens, or black filth in YOUR streets.
Development did the same to the Jews who lived on the beach and to the poor who lived in Overtown whom were forced to relocate to the next affordable place. For many being Florida City!!! They keep pushing and pushing them to get out of your neighborhoods, your streets, out of your field of vision for that matter. It’s people like ANON 11:26 that disgust me. Ignorance spewing out on paper. Those who try to pretend to know what it is like. This “area” that he/she so kindly referrers to was there before you and will be here after you. To see one of last Historic places left in Miami broken down and forgotten will be heartbreaking for people like my family and me who have lived in the Grove our entire lives! So you want to bring change, I am down. I agree there are many changes that can be made; I also think that these changes can be done with time and without re-development.
Adam,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Fix the Grove don't bulldoze it!
Good idea, new business is good for everyone, the development should give large incentives to the neighbors and locals to open businesses there including the developer and the west Grove residents, the government must give tax incentives to anyone who opens businesses. Remember, a ten year tax break was given to anyone who starts moving to the north of downtown Miami, why can't this be done for west Grove. I love all of Coconut Grove including west Grove. Does anyone know what happened to Golden Ribs in West Grove, I was their customer every month until they disappeared a while back operating out of their Yard on Grand Avenue.
Golden Ribs!!! Oh my goodness you just brought my mouth to a water.
I've been wondering as of late, what happened to them. The food was fantastic and for a great price
This development would be for everyone who lives in Coconut Grove. Personally I am thrilled by the prospects of a Publix in our neighborhood and it would be great to have retail space that has parking actually attached to it.
Cocowalk has parking attached to it. And do we need to displace so many people so we can shop at Publix? There are many places to put a Publix, but there is little affordable housing. We should put the needs of these people before our need for personal convenience.
"Yes, I know that child is now homeless, but I get to shop at Publix! Yeah!"
What's going to happen to the Farmer's Market lot?
I heard that the farmers market will be expanded but the developers did say that it would not be displaced
RESPONDING TO GROVE RAT: I LIVE NEAR THERE AND I WORK NEAR THERE ALL I SEE IS ALOT STREET CRIME VIOLENT CRIME AND BEGGARS AND SHOPLIFTING,COMING FROM THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.I'M NOT TO SAYING ALL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS FULL OF A BAD ELEMENT I'M SURE THEIR ARE SOME FINE PEOPLE LIVING THERE,, BUT WHAT I DEAL WITH DAILY ARE NOT THAT NICE..AND DO WE REALLY NEED TENEMENTS IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD ,,REALLY WHATS SO NICE ABOUT DRIVING DOWN GRAND AVE NOW,, MOST PEOPLE ARE AFRAID AND WANT TO GET THRU IT AS FAST AS THEY CAN!!
Personally, I'm torn on this issue. Regardless of one's social views, there are sane arguments both for and against gentrification.
That said, I really really cannot stand it when PEOPLE INSIST ON TYPING ONLY IN CAPS. ITS ANNOYING AND MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO TAKE YOUR POINTS SERIOUSLY. Seriously.
What is the address for this development?
Trader joes would be great in west grove. Beside the employment opportunities the reasonable prices and great selection would be a godsend to them and the rest of us. Its like the string that could tie center and west grove together.
How many black people from the west grove even know what trader vic's is? And on that note, when you ask a person from the west grove where they shop, how many would say Publix? Very few. Publix does not cater to the African-American community. They shop at Winn-Dixie. Now, if I said "They need a Winn-Dixie in the West Grove. That would be the string that could tie together our communities." what would be your Lily White answer to that be?
It's time for the white people to stop pretending that they want development in the west grove, and then claim that they know what is best for the west grove. This is a white man's project. How would you like it if the people from the west grove came into the center grove and started to redesign it to their liking? "Too many white people driving gas guzzling cars complaining that there's no parking and following their dogs around picking up poop in plastic bags and women reproducing all over the place and drinking right there on the sidewalks right where our god-fearing children can see dressed in overpriced clothing and women in low-cut shirts and shorts that barely cover their privates. We need to change the center grove to place where we black people will feel more comfortable." How would that make you feel?
anon 6:23
I posted above you and I am in fact BLACK. Maybe you need to get your RACIST attitude an overhaul. The average west grovite may not know of trader joes YET but that does not mean they will not like it. Trader joes carries all kinds of international food including a lot of good Caribbean stuff. They also have VERY low prices. They have a huge selection of on seafood and meat products, and their prices cannot be beat. This is a totally different kind of business from say whole foods. It will have benefits for both communities.
As for changing grove to where black people feel more comfortable: I feel comfortable there, and I see many black people every day and night there that seem comfortable. Whats your problem?
And finally, anon thank you for reminding us all the ignorance and racism knows no one color.
To 9:51. Sorry, didn't know even what Trader Vic's was, which is true of most people in the west grove. It's just that when I talk to my west grove friends, they feel overwhelmed by these developers. There is little concern for the welfare of these people. Of course people of color feel comfortable in center grove, but other bloggers here are bothered by even having to drive through the west grove. I was just trying to make a point of the white attitude towards our brethren that live on Grand Ave. The west grove is steeped in history, and deserves to be saved. Affordable housing is more important than convenient shopping.
If you look at the history of Miami, you will see how many African American communities were destroyed. Overtown use to be a thriving community. It had a cool downtown with a major nightclub scene happening. There were beautiful homes and a real sense of community. What happened? A bunch of white people built an interstate through it. They relocated families. They destroyed a thriving African American community. In other words, they divided and conquered.
Now apply that to the west grove. These people date back many generations. These people built the Grove. There are founding fathers, city leaders, people of character. They also come with their share of problems, same as the rest of us. Six blocks of condos and stores that they can't afford is not building for their needs. It's like the interstate in Overtown.
You may think I'm racist. I have no problem with that. Apparently you don't live in the west grove or know these people.I work with people from the west grove. May husband grew up with them. My kids grew up with them, went to school with them. As parents, we love each other's children. We share our grief and joys. We wave to each other on the streets and from our cars. I love my friends. We are people of different cultures that live of love in peace. I would hate to see my friends have to move away because of some developers idea of what would be better for that area.
What the heck, I'll say it. It's a Grove thing, you wouldn't understand.
We don't need another publix. How about another whole foods? Grove people can go to the publix near sunset or the one on 37th. There is no need to build another. Trader Joes would be nice because it would offer an alternative to the other grocery chains in the area.
...and the correct answers are:
1- Sony is not moving to Borders, it's moving to the 2nd floor-- the offices are currently being built out for them over the old Benetton and all along that top floor.
2- There is no room on Tigertail between Mary and 27th Avenue to fit a six block retail center-- do the math.
3- It's a six block retail center.
4- the lot where the Farmers market is appears to be some sort of park area in the renderings I saw.
5- Publix would be good -- a little competition for Milams and Fresh Market
6- It's not Trader Vics (that's an old bar-- you're showing your age -- but then, so am I) It's Trader Joe's and it's cheap quality food by a family-owned, environmentally conscious company from California. ( there is room for a Trader Joe and a Publix in the Grove)--
7. From what I have seen at Village Council on TV recently (channel 77) HOATA is in favor.
8. The developer apparently proposes to assist the displaced-- currently about 180 apts. in finding homes.
Do we have the developer's assistance written up in a law-binding contract? Or do have an oral promise?Has anyone considered the affect at our local public schools? (lower enrollment, teacher lay-offs) Do I really live in a community that worries more about what store will be built rather than what happens to the people and families that occupy these apartments? There are children that live here that will be displaced. We have been reading how developers have robbed local governments' affordable housing money. Can you imagine actually trying to find 189 affordable units for these people? Sorry, but developers will say anything to get their project approved.
There are members of the west grove community that have been swayed by developers before. I still see the yellow shirts being worn. Black or white, its the green that usually wins out in the Grove.
No word on the folks from Golden Ribs? It was the best food in Greater Miami!
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