City Commission approves The Harbour project
The City Commission approved the plans for the waterfront Harbour development yesterday and it will now go to the voters in November. This is for a 50 to 80 year lease.
A few citizens spoke, some in favor, some against, but in the end, the voters will decide. It seems as if the voters are in favor of the project, only because not many people came out to speak against it. Apathy or do they like the project?
One concern is the parking garage. While it is believed to be huge (over 200,000 square feet), it will have parking for less than 500 cars. Is that enough? If the project brings in the current amount of people visiting Scotty's and the Marina now, it would work, but it is believed and of course hoped that it will bring in masses of people.
With three restaurants, it's not uncommon to have 75 to 100 people working at any given busy period. So that could be 300 cars right there in just restaurant employees, what about the retail employees?
Of course traffic is a major concern and congestion may be the norm in the Grove once the project is complete. Of course a great idea would be to bring the trolley right to the project, which would alleviate a lot of congestion.
Some residents would like nothing on the land there and would love it to revert back to parkland. I don't see that happening, but again, the vote is in November, so it's up to voters to decide the fate of Coconut Grove's waterfront now.
A few citizens spoke, some in favor, some against, but in the end, the voters will decide. It seems as if the voters are in favor of the project, only because not many people came out to speak against it. Apathy or do they like the project?
One concern is the parking garage. While it is believed to be huge (over 200,000 square feet), it will have parking for less than 500 cars. Is that enough? If the project brings in the current amount of people visiting Scotty's and the Marina now, it would work, but it is believed and of course hoped that it will bring in masses of people.
With three restaurants, it's not uncommon to have 75 to 100 people working at any given busy period. So that could be 300 cars right there in just restaurant employees, what about the retail employees?
Of course traffic is a major concern and congestion may be the norm in the Grove once the project is complete. Of course a great idea would be to bring the trolley right to the project, which would alleviate a lot of congestion.
Some residents would like nothing on the land there and would love it to revert back to parkland. I don't see that happening, but again, the vote is in November, so it's up to voters to decide the fate of Coconut Grove's waterfront now.
posted by Tom Falco at 1:11 PM
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14 Comments:
Wishing it would be turned into park land is cute and adorable and all, but not in any way realistic. Here's why - the voters can approve of a plan the commission approves, but we can't show up in November and vote for a park. Even if this plan is defeated, an identical one will be proposed and approved by the commission in a few weeks or months. The problem is that people voted for Sarnoff, or didn't show up to vote at all. No, you must reap the whirlwind. Enjoy.
Great point on the trafific, but riidng a trolly to go eat at a restaurant....good one!
NO
ive lived in the grove for over 40 years and ive seen how the grove has died over the last few years.me like all the other long time residence cant wait for something like this to happen.we need this in the grove asap...we need to get rid of stupid events like the arts festival.which are boring and the same every year.a project like this will bring life back to the grove.wake up people west kendall and brikell have it right family and culture can all be in one place
The waterfront Harbour development plans look very beautiful. But some concerns like the parking lot, traffic and employees ratio should be answered and resolved because these concerns are serious and important issues too. I hope that the voters will make the right choice for the benefit of everyone and the city welfare.
Dont'cha see? That's part of the beauty of the plan. Workers will be required to park at the currentlyly almost never used garage at Mary and Oak for a mere $10 a day providing more income for the Miami Parking Authority and a healthy, invigorating walk for the servants. On rainy days plastic garbage bags with holes ripped in them for ones head and arms will be provided (for a nominal fee.)
Win / win !
Any South Florida project will of course be designed with a large - indeed huge - garage, which is exactly what we don't need. If talk on the commission to become a better city were true, maybe we would think of other ways to get people there. And for anon above who thinks that taking public transit is beneath him, that shows exactly the type of attitude that prevents Miami from becoming a better place.
I was commenting, in a sarcastic manner, to Grape's commenting on how there wouldn't be enough space for both the patrons and the employees (ie the sarcastically referenced "servants") and how the problem would be solved by both insuring profits for the MPA and enforcing another fee on the employee. This was said tongue-in-cheek and I thought I had made that apparent by the whole "handing out trash bags as rain gear" comment.
That being said, if you don't realize how horrible public transportation is in Miami that means you don't use it. Guaranteed 2 hours to get anywhere not directly on the Metrorail line. Four hours minimum every day in transit to and from work for your average working stiff. Our public transportation in Miami is a joke and it won't change because our politicians don't care. Our politicians don't and won't care because they drive a Lexus paid for out of City funds with a gas allowance on top. Sometimes they even get to have a personal uniformed officer drive them and open the the doors for them as well.
I'll make you a deal. Even though I pretty much only use my feet and my bike as my personal transport. I'll start using public transport exclusively as soon as the Mayor, the Commissioners, and all the other public officials do.
If those we elect as the stewards of our community and infrastructure actually had to use that infrastructure for their own daily lives just think of how quickly public services would improve.
Does there have to be a parking garage right there? I think that's the important question to ask. Can a parking garage be located nearby, or one of our existing garages expanded? Could that be part of the compromise.
What compromise?
I dont think that any business is going to buy into a space where thier customers have to park three blocks away. If there are businesses there then I think they will want parking for their customers. Businesses with no parking for their customers don't last very long. Parking for employees helps too.
Even if it all ends up being green space (not a park, mind you but "green space") do you think people will want to lug coolers, chairs, soccer balls etc two or three blocks when it's 95 degrees in the shade? Or is this intended to be one of those green spaces where people jog around in circles where no one actually sits down for more than 15 minutes. For that matter, are people going to want to lug thief stuff from a multi floor parking garage to the park?
In replying to your post I don't mean to challenge you personally but more so the logistical holes in this idea we are being sold.
This is all poorly thought out with lots of promises to each different group concerned,. The businesses, the property owners, the residents and anyone else that might object will all be told exactly what they want to hear. Anything to justify this desperate grab for the last of the Grove waterfront. The only guarantee in all this is that there WILL be a restaraunt and a couple businesses located immediately at the waterfront and whoever gets those spots will make a LOT of money. How much can one little waterfront restaraunt make? Just ask Monty.
This is a fifty year lease on the last waterfront property in a location unique in the world on the edge of Biscayne Bay and the best idea that our elected officials can come up with for this PUBLIC LAND is a mall, a restaraunt , a garage and maybe some greenery.
Fecking brilliant.
huh, 95 in the shade??? You clearly don't live in south florida, let alone the grove. Rarely do temperatures exceed 90 degrees in Miami, and everyone who's spent time here knows that.
And yes, I think it's reasonable to expect people to park 3 blocks away from something. Moreover, I think it's reasonable to expect people to enjoy walking three blocks... or even more. Beyond that, I think it's good for a community and its businesses for people to walk more than 3 blocks. But hey, I guess we're just different.
You are either daft of a PR troll. I was born here in 1965 on Aviation av.
Picking a random link after Google search for average temps Miami I found Climatezone.com.
According to this site the average number of days days with temps 90* and above are
May 4 days
June 10 days
July 16 days
August 16 days
Sept 10
October 2
In October alone there are two days on average where the temperature is over 90*
IN OCTOBER!!
There's also this thing we have down here in SoFla called "humidity" and it creates a percieved temperature called the "heat index". Right now, 10:45 am. (nowhere near the hottest part of the day) The Weather Channel has the Miami heat index at 98*
98* degrees and it's not even noon and it's not even August!!
If we can agree that your average tourist is from a slightly more northerly latitude, even if they are young and in excellent health, do you think they will want to get out of their air conditioned rental car and walk three blocks in the blistering Miami sun (because over the last couple of decades most of the trees in the Grove have been cut down) raising the percieved yet another 10*-20*s raising our total, on average, so now we're walking in about 108-115*s!!
Personally I agree with you about the need for people not to be lazy but we are talking about the target market here which is the tourist dollar and the tourists are not acclimated to our hot and humid weather and for many of them this could actually be a health issue. If one is not used to this weather one is extremely susceptible to heat stroke which makes that little three block walk an actual health issue for many.
Now, shall we talk about how often it's pouring down rain? Sideways?
According to the Weather Channel right now at ten minutes to one it is 90 degrees with a Heat Index of 100 degrees.
Miami's average actual temperature for any month has never exceeded 90 degrees... yet.
If you have health concerns that keep you from walking 2 blocks, you're probably not going to enjoy adding another park either, now are you?
Also, I'm sorry that you were literally born on the street, but I'm impressed by how far you've come.
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