What happened at the Commission meeting?
So it seems that all the bicyclists that were to appear at the City Commission meeting last week, in support of earlier bar closing times in the name of safety, never appeared. Neither did the hundreds of letters in support that supposedly came in from the spandex masses. A few letters from years ago did come in and those were taken out of context to support the 3 am issue
And Ms. Janet Mondshein, exec director of the local MADD group gave her plea and presentation for nothing it seemed. In the end, people are still drinking and driving and coming from clubs all over town after leaving bars at 5 am, 7 am and 24 hours.
One other interesting thing was that the management from CocoWalk and Mayfair felt the need to stand up and change their story from a few months ago. They were asked to speak by Commissioner Sarnoff. I am very dubious of those who don't speak on their own free will.
A few months ago, I was told by CocoWalk that Muvico didn't give care about bar closing times and that CocoWalk was suffering because they could not rent out their large club spaces due to the 3 am ordinance. Clubs wanted to stay open late and they would prefer to open in other locations where they could do that. I was told this. To my face and in a written emails. I was told, "Tom, the last movies let out 1 or 2 am, they don't care what goes on at 5 am, they are long shut down by then." I was told, "no such clause," when I asked about a stipulation in Muvico's lease and bar closing times.
Then, on Thursday night, Bob Whalen, owner of CocoWalk, said the opposite. Funny how things change like that. I have a suspicion that the permits are going to flow through like butter all of a sudden now.
And Ed Prelaz, manager of Mayfair stood up and said the same thing about keeping 3 am. And yet, not one restaurant or club space is operating at Mayfair, except the Improv, for the same 5 am reason. The place has more closed storefronts than open.
And why were the other Commissioners all shut out? They looked bored out of their skulls and they got up, left the dais, came back, drank coffee and did everything except participate. Shouldn't they have asked some questions of those speaking and even their own Commission Chair?
Tomorrow we will discuss Nathan Kurland's complaints about the Grapevine and me personally at the meeting. You can probably see that at the City Hall tv channel here (it's D1 under the list).
And Ms. Janet Mondshein, exec director of the local MADD group gave her plea and presentation for nothing it seemed. In the end, people are still drinking and driving and coming from clubs all over town after leaving bars at 5 am, 7 am and 24 hours.
One other interesting thing was that the management from CocoWalk and Mayfair felt the need to stand up and change their story from a few months ago. They were asked to speak by Commissioner Sarnoff. I am very dubious of those who don't speak on their own free will.
A few months ago, I was told by CocoWalk that Muvico didn't give care about bar closing times and that CocoWalk was suffering because they could not rent out their large club spaces due to the 3 am ordinance. Clubs wanted to stay open late and they would prefer to open in other locations where they could do that. I was told this. To my face and in a written emails. I was told, "Tom, the last movies let out 1 or 2 am, they don't care what goes on at 5 am, they are long shut down by then." I was told, "no such clause," when I asked about a stipulation in Muvico's lease and bar closing times.
Then, on Thursday night, Bob Whalen, owner of CocoWalk, said the opposite. Funny how things change like that. I have a suspicion that the permits are going to flow through like butter all of a sudden now.
And Ed Prelaz, manager of Mayfair stood up and said the same thing about keeping 3 am. And yet, not one restaurant or club space is operating at Mayfair, except the Improv, for the same 5 am reason. The place has more closed storefronts than open.
And why were the other Commissioners all shut out? They looked bored out of their skulls and they got up, left the dais, came back, drank coffee and did everything except participate. Shouldn't they have asked some questions of those speaking and even their own Commission Chair?
Tomorrow we will discuss Nathan Kurland's complaints about the Grapevine and me personally at the meeting. You can probably see that at the City Hall tv channel here (it's D1 under the list).
posted by Tom Falco at 12:30 PM
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24 Comments:
Cyclists don't waste their time on this stupid 3am/5am issue. It has nothing to do with with our Real concerns: Better Roads, Real Bike lanes, better infrastructure, signs, and Education for all of us to better coexist, both car drivers and bikers. THAT's what Papa Sarnoff does not address, much less Doing something about it. CI
There was a rumor CocoWalk is in foreclosure. If that's true, I wonder what the bank has to say about this. Fact is, if CocoWalk had done its job in either paying for sufficient security or enforcing its lease obligations on Visions, this may never have happened. At the time they supported 3 AM because it would force out their most problematic tenant. They didn't apparently have the vision to understand that no one else would want the big spaces once they got what they asked for on that issue.
Saturday night I went out all night. It's not something I usually do. Went to Transit Lounge and heard Suenalo play, then to Flanigan's and didn't leave until 5 am. Didn't drive drunk, but could have if I hadn't been responsible. Left the Grove, but wouldn't have if we'd had that kind of entertainment in the Grove. The crowd at Flanigan's was very subdued and non-violent. No puking, peeing on the street or bar brawls. Just a bunch of people hanging out, mostly at tables in the restaurant. It was very low key.
I wonder if this can happen in Miami? If people wanted to be constructive and coexist here instead of bashing one another then Bars and the City and cyclists and MADD would band together and actually develop a program to offer free rides at certain hours for patrons. I mean we do not have real public transportation here like in London and New York. And the extra bar opening hours would actually help raise tax dollars to fund bike lane barricades that would make biking safer all day. All this would create jobs in Miami. Am I just dreaming? Can this happen in Miami?
Did you notice that Chairman Sarnoff would not let the camera show just how bored the other Commissioners were. Also how about the Chairman putting these Commissioner thru 3 hours of his hyperbole but would ALLOW Commissioner Carollo the 'priviledge' of speaking for only 30 seconds! The honeymoon is over! What a piece of human dung this Chairman truly is.
Sarnoff states on the record that ,'he is not very good at who his ancestors are', i.e. Grandpa David (RCA) Sarnoff.
"And the extra bar opening hours would actually help raise tax dollars to fund bike lane barricades that would make biking safer all day."
I don't know what you mean, exactly, by "bike lane barricades". Can you clarify? The main problem -- from what I've learned directly from people like Colin Worth, responsible for all these bike issues, or the previous Mayor Cement Manny-- is politics as usual: jurisdiction issues between Counties, the City's incoherent approach and insufficient efforts to fix this mess, and yes, budget issues. Allocating the enormous City Budget in certain areas, such as improving the roads or having the Fire department READY when there's a deadly collision between a bike and a car, that's Papa Sarnoff's job, or should be. It's a matter of Government Priorities and proper organization. Until they get it together, Miami will remain the third worst city in the US for cars and bikes to coexist, and the serious accidents will continue to increase in numbers every month. CI
While it makes no sense that Commodore Plaza has to close at 3am when Bird can stay open until 5, this back and forth argument will do NOTHING about the bigger issue: the Grove sucks from 10am to 3am.
Who is responsible for bringing better business into the Grove? They stink at it.
Why not just hire a lawyer and take the issue to court?
Nathan's nasty nasty nasty comments about Tom begin at 08:00:45 until 08:05:35. A must watch! This quy is so far up Sarnoff's ass that he will go after anyone including Tom Falco and his 1st. amendment rights! Sarnoff if bad! "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you"
Word on the street that yes CocoWalk is discussing foreclosure measures and options with their banks.
I hate to say it, but the grove is dying. It's over. No one will step up to the plate and try to take it back. No one will challenge Sarnoff through any of the various legal channels.
And the biggest problem is that most grove residents don't give a shit. That's why I left. And I gotta say, I found a new playground where it's ok to have fun and no one is trying to make it their own little kingdom.
My sympathy to those of you who lose a bundle in this mess, there will be many. I just hope that eventually someone gets Sarnoff out of there.
It's funny that Sarnoff started his presentation talking about how it's impermissible to grandfather any bar or restaurant in, retroactively. Particularly so, since we have video of him stating on the record when this 3am ordinance was going up for a vote, that he would come back to and consider grandfathering a few establisments in at a later time.
That is classic Sarnoff, being purposefully misleading and manipulative of the facts (via his omission) on the record.
How can anyone support this man as a city of Miami Commissioner?
There's a very simple reason that the other Commissioners didn't speak. If they spoke up about cracking down on drunk driving, ect from 3-5 am , they would have to push for it in their districts and that will NEVER happen. They rolled over for Marc and so did the Mayor who wouldn't even acknowledge that he voted for 5am the last time.
Did anyone else find it strange that Sarnoff never spoke to our police but used some washed up ex cop for his statistics, what was he afraid of hearing from his own police force?
Trust me , 5am is DOA
As i stated at the meeting, the leadership needs to bridge the gap that this issue has caused. Any politian that would allow a community, as tight as the grove was, to rip apart for political positioning, should at the first opportunity, be voted out. The question this begs is, who do we vote in. To whomever is reading this blog and reporting back to the commissioners, please pass along the following message: the experiment failed. "Sunshine" was brought forth, and truth came out. Now more than ever and with cause, the questioning of character and self interest have been brought to light. I appreciated Commissioner Sarnoff allowing a forum that gave the community a chance to voice opinions and ask questions. But when will those questions be answered? when will this come to vote? Will Marc respond? Sunshine did prevail. the issue is on which side did it favor? I suspect this is not over. The media has been informed. questions will be asked. Not only by those who live in the grove, but also by those that love the grove. like me. In the spirit of sunshine, i ask that the commission answer the questions and address the issues fairly. They have an opportunity to do the right, fair and just thing. Reversing a position is better than staying with something that is destroying a community. It demonstrates leadership.
Also, if you have something to blog about, sign your name to it. it shows character.
My best to all - Willie Vega
CocoWalk did not need the 3 am closing to remove Visions/Apple martini. They were released from their lease with both parties approval. By the way,Bob Whalen never supported the 5 am closing time, CocoWalk can force their tenants to abide by the lease language regardless of what the closing times are for the Grove. As for foreclosure actions, which are occurring all over the country, CocoWalk's problems are no different than General Growth's issues. General Growth is in bankruptcy and happens to own Merrick Park and Bayside Marketplace. Lenders are not running those properties. Furthermore Michelle, an attorney, should know this, a lender has no authority over the operations of a borrower until the lender becomes the owner of the property
I'll tell you what bothered me the most regarding last Thursday's Commission meeting. It wasn't all the usual lies and deciet coming from Sarnoff, I knew that was coming and I expected it.
It was all the so called "activists" who stepped up to the podium and recited all the horrors of drinking and driving past 3:00am as well as the detriment to the residents "quality of life".
I watched Sue McConnell, Barbara Lang, Kathy Comas and the half dozen or so of the usual suspects talk about how all hell would break loose if the 5:00am were to return to the Grove. We all heard was that there would be "blood on the streets" if people were allowed to have the same operating hours as the rest of Marc's district.
The fact of the matter is that these "activists" along with their messiah couldn't care less about drunk driving. They proved it by not demanding that the Commission make this a city wide initiative.
You see, they're not actually activists at all. As long as their 5 blocks of the Grove are dead quiet, the rest of the city can unleash a torrent of drunk drivers out on the road 24/7.
REAL activists that truly care about an issue don't just stop at their property line, it's about the geater good for all.
It's tantamount to a member of PETA that turns a blind eye to the farm two miles away that abuses its animals because it's not next to their house. By their logic why even help out Haiti? Those people don't live in the Grove. Hell, as long as an issue doesn't affect their few blocks why even care?
There are residents and schools all over the rest of Sarnoff's District that allows for 24 hour liquer sales, but that's OK, right?
You people are a joke, you only care about your own little neck of the woods and no one else.
The next alcohol related accident from another part of the city that claims someone's life might make you a little less selfish, but I seriously doubt it.
John El-Masry
Willie Vega:
With us Grovites I can tell you from experience that it can be dangerous to sign your real name. It may show character, but it also shows recklessness. We are somewhat crazy here in the grove. Because of signing my name I was forced to buy four new tires and have my ragtop replaced on my SEL-600. My advise is stay safe and stay anonymous! Sarnoff doesn't even sign his name!
John:
Some of those activists you mentioned have been known to drive through the Village after downing a couple of leg spreaders!
Forego the disputed Sarnoff facts on reduced crime due to the timing of the study, the economy, etc.
As a grove employee, I've noticed since 2008 that the Grove neighborhood on Grand Ave has disappeared. Albeit the economy, the developer that has "6 CITY BLOCKS FOR SALE" having bulldozed some buildings, or the new Grove PD force.
You don't see front lawn BBQ's anymore, the heavy amont of foot pedestrians, and heavy traffic along this section of the grove. It is much quieter and safer now.
Allow me to even emit the 40-person drug ring bus over the summer from the Grove.
From the RESIDENTS opinion, has this impacted crime at all? Or was it all that drunk driving and hoodlums in the bars...
Hope I kept this PC.
John – you are as loquacious as you are insightful. I agree and believe that if safety and public concern are the primer for this action, than it must stretch beyond ones zip code. I am waiting with baited breath to see what will be done. This is the time to separate the true believers from the hypocrites.
Willie Vega
"I agree and believe that if safety and public concern are the primer for this action, than it must stretch beyond ones zip code"
That's a no-brainer. Then again, what's next? I totally disagree. These public "officials", our well-paid Servants, should just do their jobs: Enforce the Laws, and stay the hell away from our public Liberties. 24/7/365, open for business, as in the vast Majority of Free, civilized, and half- reasonable cities Worldwide. CI
People be careful. If you sign you name and Sarnoff disagrees he will come after you legally. Be Careful!
If closing at 3:00 am makes the Grove safer than why not close every bar and club in the city at 3:00 am?
I listened and partially watched the entire part about 3am/5am. Before I state my opinions I will make it clear that I personally don't give a crap when the bars in the Grove close. That being said, here are my thoughts/observations:
- Sarnoff gave a nice presentation and backed it up with data. Whether or not that data is skewed (as Patrick Sessions implied in his statement) is unknown. It is possible that the right data sets were not used but all in all it was a good presentation and it made a lot of sense so I thought Marc Sarnoff did a good job.
- I thought the retired police officer/security consultant was a decent guy to use but having other witnesses like the woman who was assaulted in the garage and the mother whose child was killed by a drunk driver was a bit over the top. I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to those people, I'm just saying that I don't think 3am/5am needed to go that far. I also thought the woman in the blue & white striped shirt was completely unnecessary, especially with her random accusations about whether or not a business was for sale. That wasn't necessary.
- I thought John El Masry did a good job, albeit an emotional one, explaining that he is all for an early closing time as long as it is fair and balanced with the rest of the district. Like I said before, I really dont care about what time bars close. I do have to admit that it is a little fishy that bars a mere couple of blocks away in the same district have different rules though. I'm glad that John at least agreed that 3am was fine as a closing time as long as it was fair. Shows he isn't "all about business" which was nice.
- I hate to admit it because I like Tom and his blog and what he does for the community, but Kurland did a pretty good job describing what happens when you disagree with the majority of readers/commenters here. I once made a comment about 3am/5am and was told that I was on the take from the City. I laughed but I was disappointed that there couldn't be an intelligent discussion based on my obvious difference in opinion. At the same time, I think that Kurland should probably understand that when you bring politics into any forum that there are going to be people who throw insults, poke fun, use sarcasm, etc. Most of the time I think its an attempt at a joke but it doesnt always get received that way. I certainly didn't get offended when it happened to me.
- I thought the 3 Grove Crimewatch guys did a good job explaining their position in a clear and concise manner.
I think that its pretty safe to say that 5am aint gonna happen. It's silly if it does. The thought that a few extra hours of business are going to revitalize the Grove is ridiculous. The UM crowd has moved on (assisted by no buses to the Grove thanks to abuse by drunken students). If this entire discussion was about 3am vs 5am, Sarnoff wins in his defense of 3am hands down. There is no sensible reason to have bars open at 5am. However, if that is to be the case, Coconut Grove should not be the only area to which this rule applies. It seems like business owners and residents in the Grove know that 3am isn't a bad thing and are willing to compromise 5am for equality. Hopefully Sarnoff can come to a compromise himself and stick with his 3am rule but make that rule fair and balanced in his district.
Why oh why do we go on about the pros and cons of 3/5 closing!
Sarnoff ran for Commissioner.
John El-Masry did not Support SS.
Sarnoff gets even with John. Trys to put him out of business.
Just shows you how vidictive this little insect truly is.
That's the story and the only way John will ever get even with Sarnoff is via a law-suit. Sarnoff used his powers to hurt. "Do onto others....yada yada yada!
End of Story
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