Coming out of the shadows
This is your lucky day, folks. On Thursday night, you will get to see many members of the Center Grove Mafia at the Village Council meeting. They will be there to fight against one item on the agenda: The 5 am bar closings.
Please note the people who fight it. Restaurant owners, this is your chance to see who your enemies are. They are the ones who come to your place of business and smile at you while back stabbing you from the shadows. They will not be in the shadows on Thursday. They will be in front for all to see. We will be taking photos and naming all of them.
For those in favor of the change to 5 am, this is your opportunity to be there to speak up.
The Village Council meets this Thursday, November 12 at 7 pm at City Hall (3500 Pan American Drive).
On the agenda:
1) Crime Watch Update (Commander Martin and Robert Loupo)
2) 3 am to 5 am Bar Closings (first reading – discussion only)
3) Introduction of new Village Council members
4) New business
Please note the people who fight it. Restaurant owners, this is your chance to see who your enemies are. They are the ones who come to your place of business and smile at you while back stabbing you from the shadows. They will not be in the shadows on Thursday. They will be in front for all to see. We will be taking photos and naming all of them.
For those in favor of the change to 5 am, this is your opportunity to be there to speak up.
The Village Council meets this Thursday, November 12 at 7 pm at City Hall (3500 Pan American Drive).
On the agenda:
1) Crime Watch Update (Commander Martin and Robert Loupo)
2) 3 am to 5 am Bar Closings (first reading – discussion only)
3) Introduction of new Village Council members
4) New business
posted by Tom Falco at 12:30 PM
YOU MAY NOT LIFT THE PHOTOS & TEXT. IT'S COPYRIGHTED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. YOU CAN HOWEVER SHARE A STORY ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY USING THE LINKS HERE.
For linking to this one story, just click on the time it was posted & just this story will open for sharing - only through social media. Not copying and pasting.
27 Comments:
Restaurant owners, this is your chance to see who your enemies are.
I'm sorry, but that's BS.
There is a legitimate viewpoint, regardless of whether you agree or not, that 5am closings HURT the business climate in the Grove, and are detrimental to everybody, including restaurant owners.
Do Marcello and Sal over at Focaccia profit if people avoid Sunday brunch in the Grove because of the litter, vomit and urine in the streets? Does the Bookstore thrive if rents for retail space keep climbing, at least in part from chasing the nightclub business?
Ascribing vulgar motives to people who disagree with you is petty and unbecoming. You can do better, Grape.
I got that sentence from a few of the restaurant owners who told me to my face that they are anxious to see who the back stabbers are. Although they know most already.
Litter, vomit and urine in the streets? Talk about BS being spread around.
Dear Crankyoldperson who needs to move out of the city:
You live in a city. Not just any city, but a major metropolitan, world renowned city. I'm sorry if you don't realize that, but it's a fact.
There's no urine of vomit in the street. Why must you lie in regard to your viewpoint?
Open till 5am will not result in increased rent prices or night clubs. You are getting quite carried away. This is always the argument put forth in order to stop positive change or progress - but if you let it happen once, then next thing you know we're las vegas. It just ain't gonna happen old man. It's real easy to say, and stick with "only 2 or 3 such licenses allowed in the grove."
You are unwilling to compromise, which makes you wrong.
I'm going to start being as uncompromising as Marc, Sue, and the rest of the fools and demanding that every business be given a 24 hour license. That's about as rational as your viewpoint.
What is up with all the hostility in this post? ‘Coconut Grove Mafia’, really, are we still in grade school and making up names for people who disagree with us. I thought grown-ups could have differences of opinions and discuss the issues without being called names. Personally, I am for the 5am closing time, but if I weren’t, then I shouldn’t go out in the Grove because I am the ‘enemy’ and ‘stabbing you from the shadows’. I think you need a reality check and understand that there are parts of this world where brave people are risking their lives to take stances against true mafias and enemies that will stab you from the shadows. So let’s all take a deep breathe and realize how good life is in the Grove, and deal with these issues like mature adults.
Calvin, they are almost as bad, you must be new in town.
In all fairness to Grape, he may be being facetious by using the term Center Grove Mafia but he didn't make up the term, that is what a handful of malcontents are called around town that or Marc's Minions.
The CGM likes to stalk people, call code enforcement on businesses and neighbors and threaten, lie, harass people at the voting polls and cajole to get their selfish agendas passed. It's a small group who will be squashed soon.
Who is heading the Coconut Grove Mafia or the Minons of Sarnoff. Where is Barbara Lange in all this. Is she a minon of Sarnoff?
Hey Anonymous 1:40...I am relatively new, I have only been living in Center Grove since 2000. I was born and raised in Philly. If you think this prissy little organization and the mafia are almost the same, you are an idiot...
As for the rest of the comments, every neighborhood has complainers and malcontents that make life difficult for the rest of us. That's life... However, if I ever saw any of the illegal things you described, I would be the first to raise hell with them, the authorities and the news organizations. Since I haven't heard of any investigations to this illegal behavior, I have to believe there is alot of smoke and very little fire.
I am all for these issues to be addressed at the village counsel and the commissioners meetings. Just like I have for the past 10 years, I will happily sit, listen and decide which side of the issue agrees with my personal principles. Then vote…
Len Scinto:
Hi All: I wonder if I am in the Village of Center Grove Mafia? I am on the Village of Center Grove Neighborhood Association, I worked with Marc Sarnoff very closely on several activities, most notably the Home Depot Stuff, The VOCG Neighborhood Association did vote to support 3 am closings...but the vote was not unanimous, several of us are now or have always been against 3 am closings...The Village of Center Grove has diverse opinions but is also a democracy where resolutions are passed by majority vote. Mafias are not democratic. Sure some people might be more "connected" than others but that is mostly because they are more "active". If people see you working every volunteeer event to promote the neighborhood it is likely that they might ask you your opinion once in a while. If you don't like somehthing then get involved to change it.
Len, you are wrong more often than not. You generally post information that is incorrect. I don't think you mean any harm, but rather are just il-infomed very often. Please stop being so involved. thanks.
CGM, crankyoldgrovite, Calvin etc.,
The meeting is at City Hall this Thursday at 7PM.
If you're prepared to come with an open mind and willing to at least consider some sort of compromise then maybe something constructive might be accomplished, But if your intention is to lie, deceive and distort the facts (ie. vomit & urine references, MADD, angry PTA members, Tibetan Monks againt Grove bars or anything like it) we're all gunna be spinning our wheels.
I do think it's time for both sides to have a CIVIL discussion on the 5AM issue.
I would ask ALL proponents for 3am closings to write or email commissioner Sarnoff and ask him to please make this a DISTRICT WIDE BAN on 5AM liquer licenses not just the Grove. It only makes sense if the REAL goal is to protect the public from Drunk drivers and crime.
Please demand that Marc put as much emphasis on making this a district AND COUNTY WIDE RESTRICTION for obvious reasons:
1) To truly protect ALL the people of South Florida.
2)Even the playing field so other surrounding areas won't have a competative advantage over our businesses in the Grove.
John El-Masry
Hmm , I was about to say "no" Len, you are not part of the Mafia. But what do I know?
Re: Len Scinto
Agreed Len... I don't think the CGM reference should include any opposing view.
I beleave it should be reserved for the people that go around spreading rumors, lies and unsubstantiated bullshit and pass it off as fact to the disconnected and uninformed.
The people who are doing this know damn well who they are.
If you're not sure if you're a CGM member, you're probably not.
John El-Masry
Grape,
I am troubled by your portrayal True or not.
I agree with John El-Masry though, I think everyone needs to come to the table with an open mind. Calling people backstabbers who hide behind the cloak of darkness is not really helping though.
Just a thought.
Wow tough crowd. Grape are you really going to take photos and post names of anyone that opposes the 5 am bar closing?
Len is my friend. He has an open mind and is fair and honest. The people Grape is characterizing as the Center Grove Mafia are not that. They are mean, evil, spiteful, sadly unhappy people who have nothing better to do than try to discredit other people's positions by spreading viscious rumors about them. And the worse part is some of them are women who are doing that to other women. Len, you are no woman, and you are certainly not a spiteful, mean and evil woman! I love you, man!
Not only is Len a regular good guy, he is, in fact, Dudley Dooright (at the Bed Races), and an asset to our community
Len Scinto:
Thanks guys
I haven’t chimed in yet so here I go. Being involved in the betterment of this community I’ve had the opportunity to sit in meetings, listen in the on whispers and see the sly glances between “grovites” who say they want to protect the quality of life in this community. So let’s discuss the “betterment of this community”. I will start of by stating that I don’t live in the grove, so you can read or discard. Your choice. I bring it up because I’ve been told that my opinion doesn’t matter as I don’t live here. Point blank the restaurants want 5 am back. That simple. I know this because I’ve asked and in fact did so in front of one of those persons very much against the 5am closings. So he/she also witnessed it. The FACT that people aren’t coming to restaurants has affected the retail sector. I don’t live here but I work in the financial sector. I understand business. The FACT that politics are Not listening to business owners is concerning. This should be discussed tomorrow. S. Beach, S. Miami, Brickell Ave have 5am closings. I know, I’ve been there. I see no urine, vomit, etc. The betterment has to include the future. Many of those against 5am once partied here until 5am. I’m sure they live here because they once did but now want quieter times. This doesn’t speak to the future of the grove. What is more vibrant, S. Beach circa 1970’s or today? Do we want this to be S. Beach, probably not, but it doesn’t have to go to that extreme? To be continued. WV
Continued… I believe that those who oppose 5am and those for 5am truly want what’s best for the grove; at least from their point of view. The unfortunate issue is that this has been so polarizing that it’s brought dirty play into the mix. Innuendo’s, rumor mongering, and deceptive tactics have been used. There’s no doubt about it. For instance, Cocowalk’s Muvico deal having a provision that if 5am closings are allowed they would pull out was absolutely untrue. It was either said maliciously and by that an outright LIE to the public, or just a misunderstanding. You decide, but I don’t live here. Coincidentally, and without mentioning names, just because I don’t live here doesn’t mean I don’t LOVE this community. I work here, visit here, actually vacation in the grove, Mayfair thank you, spend more time here than at home and hope to see this place thrive well beyond my years. So please rethink the, “I shouldn’t have an opinion unless I live here” tactic. That would be as unfair as if I said, you shouldn’t have a voice in the 5am matter since you don’t have a shop in downtown grove. WV
By the way, I’m for parity. If it means 3am, it’s 3 am for everyone. If other’s have 5am why don’t we. Yes I am for 5am. I’m for business. I’m for more police officers, a strong independent Grove Chamber, less political involvement, i.e. let politics be politics and business be business. I’m for beautiful parks, week end events and a close community. Will 5am help bring it back. Yes it most certainly will. We are not a mall. So our merchants need flow. Restaurants help create flow. Nightly activities bring flow to restaurants. Get it now? Commodore plaza is improving because they are promoting Saturday block parties. Do they end at 5am? No. But eventually people want variety. Having competitive clubs allow for block parties and restaurants to be the prelude. Get it now? Why don’t we have clubs in the Grove? Because our legislation makes it uncompetitive from the get go. No one will make that bet. BTW, I wish the Ivy the best. I truly hope truths are stated tomorrow. Enough with the innuendo’s and lies. Let’s stop attacking peoples’ characters or spreading lies. This is a serious time and we need serious people in charge. No more moving policies through deceptions, tricks, and fear mongering. The End. WV – Willie Vega
I think it's OK to serve alcohol til 5:AM. I know it makes a big difference to the bar owner but I still don't think it will do much for other local businesses.
I also think that "mafia" and "enemies" are not appropriate terms for everybody who is for the 3:AM ordinance. Generalizations like that are unfair.
Tony, others could take a pointer or two from you. Not too long ago you were on the front line for the movement to prohibit all liquer sales in the Grove after 3AM. Although it apparently isn't your cup of tea, you at least have the ability to consider compromise, and I commend you for that.
I too am willing to compromise as well. If the 5AM closures are really that much of a threat to the welfare and safety of the citizens of this wonderful city that we live in then why would Commissioner Sarnoff object to making this a DISTRICT WIDE ORDINANCE??? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to expect that limiting the sale of alcohol in a tiny sliver of his district would accomplish the alleged goal behind all of this, which is to stop drunk driving and curtail crime. If all of Marc's district had to play by the same rules it would certainly benefit us here in the Grove. I believe that we would immediately get back a lot of the people who defected to Mary Brickell, Midtown, and Downtown.
I could live with that....
What I can't live with is a commissioner that thinks that he can pick & choose who lives and who dies, who's protected and who's not, which businesses survive and which perish and cram his "vision" of what HE wants the Grove to be down our throats.
You're naked on this one Marc.... either you make this a district wide ordinance to protect the whole district or you'll rightfully be labeled by any fairminded person as a liar and a hypocrite, it's just that simple.
... And Tony I agree with you that this isn't a panacea to cure all of our woes, but it'll help.
John El-Masry
District-wide? How about City-wide and then a push for County-wide. If we are facing these major safety concerns in Coconut Grove from 3-5am, we should be lobbying the County to protect the residents of Miami Beach or the neighbors around the 24-hour club Space... Just strikes me as a little selfish for us to be the only ones in the City to benefit from these heightened safety conditions.
-Stephen Murray
Kris will urinate in the street no matter what time he leaves the bar. Why? Because he is a man, and the world is his urinal.
Post a Comment
<< Home