Being civil amongst the controversy
The Village Council meeting was very civil the other night, both sides had their turns to speak and the Village Council heard them all. There was applause from the audience on both sides and I even enjoyed Ron Nelson's remarks about the Grapevine, he said that the story I wrote about people in the shadows and calling them names was disgraceful and not right.
The whole room turned to look at me sitting in the back row, but honestly, I enjoyed that part and it didn't phase me at all. I did regret calling people "mafia," and not being civil myself in that story, but I was not embarrassed about being called out in public. I knew 90% of the people in the room and I consider them all friends, so it was just friends looking back at me after Ron called me out.
In fact, I ran into CBS4 reporter Gio Benitez downstairs after the meeting, and asked him about putting that on the news. But Gio said that he only had one and a half minutes of sound bite to show on the news out of the whole three hour meeting, and that wasn't the sound bite they would use. Too bad, we could always use the publicity.
Speaking of being civil, there was one part where a number of the Grove residents (those mostly on keep the 3 am closing time) just walked out after they had their say. The Village Council did not even speak yet to voice their concerns and opinions and this huge mass of people just stormed out as if on cue. Guess they knew the majority of the Village Council is in favor of the 5 am closings, and they didn't want to give them the courtesy of hearing their reasons why, which were very interesting and compelling.
It was very rude and uncalled for and didn't help their cause.
Here is the video report that ended up on CBS4.
The whole room turned to look at me sitting in the back row, but honestly, I enjoyed that part and it didn't phase me at all. I did regret calling people "mafia," and not being civil myself in that story, but I was not embarrassed about being called out in public. I knew 90% of the people in the room and I consider them all friends, so it was just friends looking back at me after Ron called me out.
In fact, I ran into CBS4 reporter Gio Benitez downstairs after the meeting, and asked him about putting that on the news. But Gio said that he only had one and a half minutes of sound bite to show on the news out of the whole three hour meeting, and that wasn't the sound bite they would use. Too bad, we could always use the publicity.
Speaking of being civil, there was one part where a number of the Grove residents (those mostly on keep the 3 am closing time) just walked out after they had their say. The Village Council did not even speak yet to voice their concerns and opinions and this huge mass of people just stormed out as if on cue. Guess they knew the majority of the Village Council is in favor of the 5 am closings, and they didn't want to give them the courtesy of hearing their reasons why, which were very interesting and compelling.
It was very rude and uncalled for and didn't help their cause.
Here is the video report that ended up on CBS4.
posted by Tom Falco at 10:00 AM
YOU MAY NOT LIFT THE PHOTOS & TEXT. IT'S COPYRIGHTED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. YOU CAN HOWEVER SHARE A STORY ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY USING THE LINKS HERE.
For linking to this one story, just click on the time it was posted & just this story will open for sharing - only through social media. Not copying and pasting.
21 Comments:
Two hours difference for 1-2 bars is not going to make or break the Grove. The loss of three economic engines like the Playhouse, AMC Movie Theater and Expo Center are the real causes of our own self-inflicted wounds. There is no reason to go to war over the 3 AM or 5 AM bar closing issue. Those that had the license to be opened till 5 AM should be grandfathered in. All others will have a next to impossible task to convince our community and Commissioners to grant that extension. The CGVC can have all the meetings they wish, form lots of committees and vote on plenty of issues. But they would be more useful if they actually took ownership of some of the achievable issues and really solved some of our problems with real efforts and positive results. The CGVC may never solve world famine, malaria, world peace or the Cuba embargo situation. But the CGVC can help with the Post Office, art in public places, Glasshouse return to a community center or restaurant & help attract folk back to Peacock Park, rude police, out of control parking authority, street pot-holes, uneven sidewalk pavers, better landscaping, more flowers, special events, panhandlers, marketing the Grove, noise issues, boarded up buildings, illegal banners, litter and other important Grove issues. We want the CGVC to actually be useful to the Grove. They need to protect what we have and help to make things better. All Grovites wish the best for the newly elected members of the CGVC and hope that they will actually accomplish great things with less talk, fewer committees and actual deeds. Help to create new economic engines. If you really wish to voice your concerns about the 3 AM or 5 AM bar closing issue then please attend the Commissioners meeting in January. That is when you will be heard by your elected representatives that will help decide polices that will be implemented and effect us all for years to come. You need to convince them and only them, what is in the best interest of both Grovites and business operators that will benefit all of the Grove. Bring more then just your anger or passion for whichever side of the issue you are on. Bring facts, petition signatures, statistics, wisdom, common sense and some attorneys if you got’em.
Harry - the playhouse has been dead for years, the decline happened well in advance of the AMC shutdown, and I've never been to, nor ever heard any person ever, talk about going to the expo center.
In regard to convincing commissioners, there is simply no convincing, reasoning with, rationalizing with, or in my opinion, time left to deal with Marc Sarnoff, who does not represent the majority of his district. I would love to see a poll of his approval rating, and I would be shocked if it topped 10-percent. Let's rid our selves of this cancer.
Money from the city, spent in the grove goes to dog parks and circles in front of his house, instead of toward fixing the haphazard brick sidewalks, putting in bike lanes or sidwalks on tigertail or any of hundreds of better ways to spend our money.
All the while he threatens our busineses, and tells them how to run their operations. That is certainly not the role of commissioner.
Harry, you are so full of ideas and time to talk about them, yet when you have the chance to run you don't. I'm sorry about that. It is easy to second guess the council's work when you're on the sidelines. As you are aware, we act as a forum for the Grove, bring issues to the attention of the City, County and State. We cannot fix potholes (although we hope our new Mayor can, since that seemed to be the focus of his platform). We cannot change the law on 3 am closings, but we can provide a forum for the vetting of the issue before it goes to the City, which we did. The fact is the ONLY reason Marc has agreed to put this issue on a City agenda is because of the Village Council's actions. It may not solve all the problems; no one says it will. Making the Grove competitive with other parts of the City, however, is only fair, and there is no doubt the perception the law has caused has harmed many Grove businesses, not just the one 5 am establishment that has survived. It's not about the two hours from 3 to 5. It's about all the people who don't come to the Grove at all anymore because they'd rather start and finish their evening where they can stay out late if they want to.
Harry, you seem to be so full of 300+ words op-ed comments here on the Grapevine, EyeonMiami, the Miami Herald and clogging my email inbox, yet I do not see you taking any initiative to actually DO anything with those ideas. Normally your comments are relatively rude and talking down to whoever it is you are addressing in your rant. Sometimes it's Joe Sanchez, sometimes it's the Village Council, sometimes it is other people, and privately it's been me.
Come to a meeting. Introduce yourself. Get involved on one of these issues that you seem to be so passionate about. But enough with the back seat driving.
Thank you Stephan Murray, well spoken. I actually like Harry but your comments ring true.
"Two hours difference for 1-2 bars is not going to make or break the Grove."
That's not the point, Harry. Although you can ask any late-business owner the question to their face, and listen.
The point is more about freedom of competition with other adjacent Villages, freedom of social gathering among Adults, it's about a completely incoherent, idiotic and intrusive recent measure by Papa Sarnoff. Enforce the Laws, keep it clean and quiet, and let the people stay out 24hrs if they so choose. Or we will continue to go right there to Flanigans, South Beach, Brickel or Pinecrest and drive back home at all hours to the Grove. Makes perfect sense, huh? CI
Fact: closing the grove early, encourages grovites to go elsewhere, then drive back into the grove drunk late at night.
This theory holds more water than Marc Sarnoff's theory that shutting bars down at 3 ends drunk driving in the grove.
There is just as much or more logic behind arguing that this new 3am policy had increased the problem, as opposed to decreasing it.
That the Grape actually asked the newsstation to put their sound bite in the news is everything that is wrong in the Grove right now. Put your egos aside. I think the Village Council is doing a good job and just by getting on the agenda is a step in the right direction. Mr. Sarnoff sure isn't the person we thought he was. That's for sure.
Enforce the Laws, keep it clean and quiet
How do you propose to make that happen?
Harry,
you're my friend and you have been a force here. I was Chairman, representing the Council, of the Post Office Committee. Everything good that happened was as a result of your efforts, and certainly not mine. I want everyone to know that. But Harry, the economic engine that drives this place is called generically, ENTERTAINMENT Albeit, the theater and movies are gone, what's left here? Restaurants and bars. It's a starting place, I think, to making this once again a destination.
People should know that Harry Gottlieb serves on the City of Miami Code Enforcement Board. That Board meets for many hours every month and Harry is an excellent active member.
I have only met Harry in person several times but I appreciate his many excellent suggestions and I appreciate all the volunteer hours he contributes to our community.
Harry lives in the past as does the new Mayor. Harry tried to step into the future when he became a 'flipping' investor. That venture failed; but not Harry's fault, it was the fault of Mayor Diaz, Spence-Jones, Sanchez and Gonzalez.
Harry they are all gone! Now who you going to blame.
Harry be a part of the solution....not a part of the problem!
Harry is on the code enforcement board. Something that actually does something. The Village Council members; you may ridicule him for talking a lot but is that not what you guys do? Just sit around talk then tell the Commission what you think.
He is MUCH more active in the Community then what you think, speaking with all of the Commissioners and now, Mayor.
Do not be to quick to judge.
One of the nicest things that happened as a result of there being no opportunity to have the VC meeting at City hall was that it actually forced the community of interested parties to make an appearance at the actual meeting, thus making it a true Town Hall meeting, one that we are fortunate to have on a monthly basis, thanks to the Village Council. Harry has a lot of opinions, some with which I agree, some with which I do not, but I admire that he does make his opinion know and that he does so without the cloak of anonymity.
When that happens, opinions become dialogue. Support your Village Council by attending its meetings.
Harry: The Village Council is there to help with any issue that the residents and businesses of the Grove bring before it. There have been committees created and hours spent on many of the issues you brought up and even some which you did not, such as Marjory Stoneman Douglas's home and the internationally - covered "peacock situation". I am proud of the Village Council, and will continue to support it even if I am no longer a council person.
An aside to "That Guy"
You missed my Brady point. It is just that all this wrist wringing over whether we are allowed to meet at City Hall, when it is clear that we do not need City Hall in order to meet, is acting like silly, self involved teenagers.
And to be clear, I do not care for Kool-aid. I am too much of a beverage snob and independent thinker. The Jamestown In which I danced away the night and listened to Jazz did not serve Kool aid.
The place is no longer there, but the Grove's spirit of late night fun should not be denied anyone. We need to keep the Grove Alive.
Like many people, I have received many E-mails from Harry Gottlieb. I find the vast majority of his suggestions and ideas to be excellent. He was an early opponent of the scam to bailout the Marlins and he was right. The total cost to the taxpayers will well exceed all early estimates from the liars (or idiots) at Miami-Dade County and at the City.
Harry has commonsense. Further, Harry deserves respect for writing using his own name.
I consider myself a friend of Harry. There is no doubt in my mind that Harry cares deeply about the Grove.
Harry is a stand up guy and on more than one occasion has gone out of his way to assist me.
What I've tried to explain to Harry as well as others is that this 3:00AM closing really is a perception problem. Even if Mark changes his mind today and tells me that I can start closing at 5:00AM tonight, I really don't think that it would make that much of a difference for me or the Grove.
We must change to message!!!
We must let everyone know that we're still the great, fun, hip, happening place that we've been for decades.
How do we do that? Well, start off by grandfathering the people that had their 5AM licenses prior to this ridiculous ordinance going into effect, (I'm the only one left standing) then, just like the rest of the city , allow other restaurants that meet the established criteria to at the very least have the opportunity to apply for their special exception.
I'm OK if the city wants to place potential applicants on some sort of "probationary period" to see if they can play by the rules. Hell, the city could make each establishment have to renew their license annually,
this way the bad businesses that don't hold up to there end of the bargain get their licenses revoked.
We must be able to compete with everyone else.
I strongly believe that some of the residents and city officials are cutting the very branch that their sitting on.
John El-Masry
John,
Right on target. We need a BID that works.
Gary Hecht
Counciolman, Coconut Grove
John El-Masry, Commissioner Sarnoff on February 14, 2008 promised to continue to meet with you to check out 'feasibility'. Mr. El-Masry, how many times has the Honorable Commissioner met with you?
February 14, 2008:
Vice Chair Spence-Jones: Okay. Commissioner Sarnoff, do you have a problem with amending
it for restaurants?
Commissioner Sarnoff: Sorry?
Vice Chair Spence-Jones: Do you have a problem with amending your motion to include -- to
not include the restaurants?
Commissioner Sarnoff: I cannot amend it right now for restaurants, that's correct.
Vice Chair Spence-Jones: I'm saying -- but do you have a problem with not including it?
Commissioner Sarnoff: I will continue to meet with him, and I will continue to see if it's feasible with the City Attorney to create a bona fide restaurant, but that is not an amendment I'm going to accept.
Mr. El-Masry: Is it possible, then, Commissioner Sarnoff, that we can defer this so --
Commissioner Sarnoff: No.
Mr. El-Masry: -- I -- so we could have time in order to discuss this?
Commissioner Sarnoff: No.
Vice Chair Spence-Jones: Wow.
Vice Chair Spence-Jones: Commission -- okay. My last thing. I tried, okay?
Mr. El-Masry: Appreciate it.
Spence-Jones was subsequently arrested for corruption. Then Crist removed her from office.
Re: anon 12:03
Marc did not remove Spence Jones....
wait a minute, I'm sorry, I thought you said Christ.
Spence-Jones is not removed from office. She was suspended from office by Gov. Crist after the State Atty indicted her. There will soon be a $200K election in District 5. She can run and may win. If she does not win, but if proven innocent then her suspension will be lifted and she may take back her seat. The voters have the right to elect a good Commissioner, a bad Commissioner and even a former criminal Commissioner. Wish we had the Parliamentary option of Voting No Confidence and getting rid of bad politicians easier and sooner, before they vote on irresponsible projects like the Mercy Hospital illegal spot zoning, Marlin Stadium, Marlin Parking Garage and such.
Post a Comment
<< Home