What's with the scare tactics?
To the parents at local schools who are being told that if the 5 am bar closings come back, that your children are in danger, let me ask you -- are your children out at 5 am waiting for the school bus alone? And if so, have any of the "drunk" drivers currently coming home from Brickell or South Miami or other areas outside the Grove -- coming into the Grove -- affected your children?
And another question, if this is such a serious issue, why not ask your child's school for proof of this happening in the past. As you know, the clubs that caused the problems in the past are no longer here and only a couple of bars will be affected by the 5 am closing time, NOT every bar and restaurant in the Grove. But if it was such a problem in the past, you know, school children being mowed down by drunk drivers, I am sure your school and neighbors would have a record of that. Ask. I have checked with the police and there are no reports of any of this.
You are for either for the Grove business owners or against them. If you are against them, perhaps you should consider a move to Kendall where you can be far away into the suburbs away from a vibrant urban life, although, as each bar and restaurant closes one by one due to the inability for them to compete with the rest of the city and county, you actually may find yourself in a state of Kendall because there will only be residences and no businesses in our Village. We'll be a bedroom community because a handful of Grovites want it that way.
And another question, if this is such a serious issue, why not ask your child's school for proof of this happening in the past. As you know, the clubs that caused the problems in the past are no longer here and only a couple of bars will be affected by the 5 am closing time, NOT every bar and restaurant in the Grove. But if it was such a problem in the past, you know, school children being mowed down by drunk drivers, I am sure your school and neighbors would have a record of that. Ask. I have checked with the police and there are no reports of any of this.
You are for either for the Grove business owners or against them. If you are against them, perhaps you should consider a move to Kendall where you can be far away into the suburbs away from a vibrant urban life, although, as each bar and restaurant closes one by one due to the inability for them to compete with the rest of the city and county, you actually may find yourself in a state of Kendall because there will only be residences and no businesses in our Village. We'll be a bedroom community because a handful of Grovites want it that way.
posted by Tom Falco at 10:00 AM
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33 Comments:
Everyone driving to work and schools I am sure cause most of the issues. Texting and talking and just plain RUDE! not people leaving clubs at 5AM.
Do you want businesses to go under? I work in the Grove and it seems so dead to me. It's so sad because I remember a time where every weekend my friends and I were always there because it was a fun place to be. Now they say why? We need movement and people back in. The 5 AM closing I believe will help our community far better than the current closing of 3 AM. Besides that, what child is up at 5 AM? GIVE ME A BREAK! Texting and talking while driving I believe is a bigger threat to our children.
Sarnoff's office is worse than Glenn Beck.
These are lies, trying to control people with fear.
"If you do this, they will kill your kids"?!??!?!?!
Marc, Sue, Ron (and I'm guessing you want out of this by now), and the rest of the spreaders of this filthy propaganda, just stop.
Make a logical argument that appeals to people's rationale, or just call it a day.
-BW
We should ban schools in Coconut Grove! Kids make noise and their parents cause traffic jams! (Just kidding, for those of you who take everything I say seriously.)
I'm just blown away by this. Is there anything that our commissioner won't do to skew things his way? For him to go around to schools in the neighborhood and try to "manufacture" fears for unsuspecting parents is beyond reprehensible and borders on criminal. This is the way this guy opperates, by deceit and fearmongering. He basically gave them sound bites that he felt would influence the village Council. A mom told me herself that she was suprised to see Sarnoff there at the school bringing this up because to the best of her recolection this was never an issue at the Vangaurd school. But don't let the facts get in the way Mark. Some police officers here in the Grove told several merchants that he's manipulating all kinds of statistics to support his assertion that one or two bars open will create pandamonium in the center village. YOU LIE MARK.
Not all people around the grove are lemmings. You'll hear that there were approx. 3000 less "Disturbance" calls, but what you won't hear is that the drop is more than commencerate with the DROP IN PEOPLE COMING INTO THE FRIGGIN GROVE!! I suppose we could virtually have NO disturbance calls if we just put up a big wall surrounding the Gove and not let anyone in at all! Enough is enough, this guy has gone to far. MARK YOU'RE KILLING THE GROVE!!!
I wouldnt throw Sue and Ron into this mix.
Since we are worried about drunk drivers from the 5am closing time - would it not be a good idea to not allow the drunks (Coconut Grove residents) coming back from other areas that have 5am or later closing time to drive into Coconut Grove. That would be funny.
The people supporting keeping the 3AM closing time are the biggest drunks of all. They all need AA by now. The thing is they're old now so by 11PM they are so drunk they need to go to sleep early. You know who you are!
This is ridiculous, I live in coconut grove, and I go to the bars,shops, etc.. Just last week, I was walking with some friends from Barracudas to Mr. Moes and I was amazed at what a ghost town it looked like. Monday night football and no one anywhere in sight. That is a bad sign. I agree with the previous posts, that texting while driving is def. a bigger threat..and I believe the majority of these drivers your everyday business people in suits and ties that are always in such a hurry to get places..these are the people we have to watch out for...not the people that leave the bars at 5am..come on..what kid is going to be up that early...and if they are by themselves waiting on their school bus..you should really reevaluate your parenting skills, bc no child should be waiting on their own the way things are out there.
It's beyond ridiculous. For those who have lived in the Grove say 5, 10 or 15 years, or when we came here to party at night as teenagers, the Grove was always packed, for Decades, and, surprisingly, amazingly, we're all still alive and well. And we used to have a great time here. The neighbors were ok for Decades with the 5am closings. Now it's a zombie town, thanks to a few out-of-touch stiffs. Carlos
I think the most compelling argument to the Commissioner is quite simple,
If you really feel so strongly about the drunk driving issue then why on earth do you allow 5Am licenses virtually everywhere else in your district.
Mary Brickell Village, Midtown, Downtown, design district ect.....
EVERYWHERE EXCEPT THE GROVE!!!
Does anyone, even his staunchest supporters, believe that it's just a coincidence he lives in the only area that restricts the sale of alcohol?
When you can answer that simple question HONESTLY I swear to God I'll shut my fu#@%#@ mouth, close my business and move.
There is a minority of loud creeps with their associates who are fighting businesses by abusing their positions and the law for their own short term goals. These people should be banned from Coconut Grove.
I kind of agree with Proud. I have no intention of voting for any incumbent for any position in November's election. No matter how bad the challengers are, they certainly could not be worse than the incumbents.
The Grove is different from Kendall because it's density, trees, and the fact you can walk everywhere.
Funny. Guess no one was going to express Marc's view at the Village Council meeting; the council got denied tv coverage by the city manager; they had to cancel their candidate introductions.
Heaven forbid that we should hear points of view from the officials we could choose to elect.
Looks like everyone is trying to move televised candidate introductions to the center grove homeowners association. Maybe Sue can be the moderator... sounds like a nice open dialogue.
Good to know Marc's fascist empire will be undisturbed by little things like democracy and elections. It must be nice to control the media and censure free speach. It's like a page out of Mao's playbook.
Didn't Marc lie about who his Grandfather was? Didn't he give a previous fiance a fake diamond claiming it was real? Isn't there a history of lies and deceit here! Leopards don't change their spots.
We need to revitalize our business district and give our restaurants a chance to survive.
Please do not be frightened with these scare tactics. Support our bars and restaurants so they can compete with other entertainment districts.
We all want what is best for the Grove and our community. I have spoken to many restaurant owners and they are not trying to ruin our community but build business so we can once again have an energetic and successful village.
Longer hours mean more jobs and opportunities to earn wages. Attract more visitors and provide entertainment options for the residents who live here. Flanigans has enjoyed being open to 5am for years with no problems, in fact it is our mainstay for those who want a late burger or drink.
Everyone I have spoken to wants to do this in a safe and secure way.
I remember Faces in the Grove, Suzanna's, Regine's - all had 5am closings and were very successful!
And the Grove was the hottest ticket in Miami.
Let's start revitalizing our business district NOW - say yes to 5am!
Anon 8:57, don't blame all the incumbents for the failure to stand up to Marc. I, Lili Dones and Adam Weirich support 5 am closings and were the ones who voted for the issue to be heard last night. I'm the one who made the motion that got this whole discussion started. The new candidates who have showed some backbone already are Stephen Murray, Renita Samuels Dixon, Will Furry, Heather Bettner, Scott Janowicz. The mayoral candidate who is not afraid to stand up to Marc's bullying, and has done so in the past, is Joe Sanchez. It's really important you come out and vote.
Michele, is there any means for removing a sitting commissioner? I assume that there must be something. A recall perchance? If California could do it, why can't district 2. I don't wanna wait another year to get Marc out of there.
He's like cancer, except less fun.
I'm all for 5 AM closings., Hail, I wish bars could stay open 24 hrs. But in reference to some of the comments above about the Grove being dead, like during Monday Night Football, why does anyone think an extra two hours at two places, is going to bring the Grove 'back'?
Aren't there more important issues; rents, code enforcement, development, parking, etc. that we should be focusing on?
That Guy, when Joe was appointed to District 3 it was because the sitting Commissioner had been carted out of City Hall in handcuffs. I don't know that there is any recourse if the Commissioner is acting within the law.
Marc has 2 years left, until 2011.
Anon 9:55 - I agree. Opening bars until 5 am is great, but it's not going to be the magic bullet. The Grove needs to look at parking, safety, rejuvenating the Playhouse, etc. And, please, let's do a better job of keeping the place clean! Everyone can take responsibility for that, not just the commissioners. My friends don't want to come to the Grove as much because they think it's dirty - messy sidewalks in the shopping areas, trash, weeds in the planters. Don't shoot the messenger - I love it here and I'm not leaving, but we need more than 2 more hours of cocktails to attract the crowds.
but it can't hurt, right natasha and 9:55?
It is one of the necessary steps and it's the only one that doesn't cost a cent.
that guy,
yeah, it can't hurt. but when we get the extra 2 hours and the grove still isn't full, then what?
Who will we be able to then?
Michelle:
Why not impeach him on ground that he sucks. But besides that maybe you can answer this since you are a lawyer why haven't any of the restaurant or bar owners sued the City. Everyone I speak to says they have a great case? Ans would most likely win.
As I said, I love it here, and my neighbors do, too. The beauty and bohemian lifestyle attracts, or attracted, people to our village, not just drinking. People who live and work here (and I know there'll be some who poo-poo this idea, too) need to take pride in our appearance and in all we have to offer. There is no place like the Grove in Miami. Instead of pointing fingers and making sarcastic comments, we need to be realistic about our appeal, 5 am closing time or not.
GRAPE:
I spoke to one of the Moms at the Vanguard and apparently "the great communicater" (just like his dear old grandad) handed out some literature/article/PROPAGANDA at the school's monthly meeting that will be forwarded to me shortly. I'm not a gamblin man but I'll bet you a soda that we'll all see first hand the depths that this a-#@%# will stoop to to get his way.
Still Waiting For ANYONE from camp Sarnoff to explain why he doesn't mind seeing pedestrians, bicyclists, children on their way to school, small amimals,trees etc. struck and killed by drunk drivers coming home from the DOZENS of bars and clubs that HE ALLOWS TO SERVE ALCOHOL TIL 5AM IN HIS DISTRICT.
My offer still stands; I'll shut my mouth, pack up all my sh@% and take my business to a town that wants it.
Will someone please take a crack at it?
Natasha is spot on! Grove residents deserve so much more from the city taxes we pay, e.g. weekly street sweeping in front of Coconut Grove Elementary. And, let's all do our part by respecting one another and keeping the Grapevine from becoming the Gripevine.
I am really getting tired of all the talk about how the Grove is going to hell in a handbasket because we don't have a bunch of bars open until 5. Like Natasha said, there's so much more to our little haven than drinking. All of it could use a boost. I hope the 5 am is okayed for the people who want it. I have to agree that it's not going to be the saving grace. We need to get a better attitude and instead of complaining and calling people who don't want to drink until the wee hours old farts who should move to Kendall. I like to go to bed at 11, I'm a lot of fun, I'm lucky to have many friends, I love the Grove, and I really wish people would be more respectful of each other and our community.
The Grove battle over the 3 AM vs. 5 AM Bar Closing. I can’t believe that all this fuss is over 1 bar (Mr. Moe's) and 2 hours! The Grove has many more problems then this that need solutions now. This closing hornets nest sure is a lot of free PR for Michelle! It is my understanding that Sarnoff pushed for the 3 AM closing and that Sanchez and I think Spence-Jones voted along with him. Regalado voted to keep the 5 AM closing because he did not think it was right for government to arbitrarily change the time a business must close.
And that Mr. Moe’s should have been grandfathered in with the 5 AM closing time anyway. Let the Grovites decide!
Thanks Anon 6:45. I like to go to bed at 10:30. I've never been called boring, I'm not old, and I enjoy my life. I get up early to enjoy the Grove sunrise before I go to work to earn $$$ to spend in the Grove. Don't call me an old fart because I'm not Miami wild; I've been in the Grove for years and I love it. All this hateful talk about the Grove being dead and anyone who thinks midnight is late should live in Kendall is disrespectful to many of your good neighbors.
Club Space sells liquor 24/7. It is on NE 11th Street in District 2. A 18 year old girl was murdered within hours of leaving Club Space with a DJ. Special treatment?
Shouldn't that club be closed at 3:00 am?
As far as using "this has never happened before" as a basis for thinking it will never happen:
Nothing that has ever occurred on this planet since the beginning of time ever happened before it happened for the first time. Yes. That is right. %100 percent of everything never happened before. It may be a rough concept to get your head around but a look back at 9/11 might shed some insight.
The argument that "only two places will be affected by the 5am change" is naive shortsightedness. The second you change the law it will be up to city officials do dole out licenses and there will be nothing stopping them from doing it. None of us want the "Kendal suburbs" but we do not want south beach either.
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