Let's put the Glass House item to a vote
Heather Bettner, candidate for Village Council in November, whose family has been part of the Grove and involved with the Grove since 1931, has made a compelling argument for not making the Glass House in Peacock Park into a commercial venture.She has some pretty good points:
"The glass house should remain a building for the public - the community of Coconut Grove. We should remodel it and the abandoned shuffle board court and have a community center with meeting space, education area, activities, and sports. Part of it could house a Coconut Grove Museum and cultural center.
This idea of a restaurant is so short sighted and also not very well thought through.
Let's see - I can already see the trash littered all over our lovely park. I can see the mangroves removed so the restaurant patrons can have a clear view of bay. I can see our children's skate park abolished so the restaurant can have events and catering since they can't make it selling regular fare.
It will also make a good argument for our politicians to expand on this and build out more shopping and restaurants on our waterfront area so they can make more money on taxes, parking and citations.
I have lived in the Grove since 1962 and this building has always been for the people - the community of Coconut Grove. And it will remain so in the end. But sometimes you have to fight for what you hold dear, so let the fight begin."
Heather makes a lot of sense. I can actually see all of this happening, the restaurant owners won't like the kids on the skateboard park making too much noise, so that will be gone, the mangroves are blocking the view (and the trees, that was a problem when they wanted VIP seating during 4th of July, they could not do it because the immediate trees above the veranda at the Glass House blocked the view of the sky and the waterfront, you can see that in the photo above) would a top selling restaurant be allowed to "unblock the view" in the middle of the night some time and just pay a quick fine? Business as usual?
Just some things to think about, I had been for the restaurant, but many people have opened my eyes to what could happen and what should and should not happen.
Why does the public never have a vote on anything? Why do things happen in the Grove overnight without anyone being asked to vote? When is someone going to step up and say "enough"?
posted by Tom Falco at 12:15 PM
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42 Comments:
Heather is right on target here. However, I dunno if clearing as much as possible of what little is left of our WaterViews is such a bad idea. The Mangroves are beneficial of course, but relocating a few wouldn't hurt. A Restaurant, of course, shouldn't have anything to do with it. But where are these Grove "Waterviews" when you walk from South Grove, to Center and North Grove till the toll plaza? 95% GONE. Drive or walk, where's the water? Ride a mountain bike, you might catch a glimse or 2 of the bay in select spots. Just by erradicating some invasive species such as the nasty Seaside Mahoes -which infest many waterfront areas and parks- would help, not to mention stopping the construction of more infamous Bayfront buildings.
Peacock Park in Coconut Grove is beautiful. Let's keep it that way.
No commercial ventures (Vultures) please.
Definitely get rid of the mangroves and publicize the fabulous view right here, the jewel of Miami. NO to he restaurant. What on earth will Monty do during the festival when he can't get that land to use. He's thrown a bone or two to the C of C. But how will he fight City Hall?
Monty is probably the one that Sarnoff is handing the restaurant to. It will fit in very nicely with their arts festival plans. Just watch.
There is no risk the mangroves will be removed. This issue was considered in the context of the waterfront master plan, because a lot of people want views to the water. You can trim the mangroves, or possibly cut windows into them, but you can't remove them because there are environmental laws protecting them.
The Seaside Mahoes, which block numerous WaterFront spots in our Bayside are still there, even though they are highly invasive, non-indigenous species. My repeated attempts to get answers from the City (Works Dept / Environment) and others have been in vain thus far. For instance, that plan to clean up Kennedy park -tax money spent over a year ago- to erradicate these and other invasive pests, which still block many potential bays views and dammage the eco-system? Nothing to this day. CI
Is it against those environmental laws just to RELOCATE a few of the Mangroves to other areas, to open up a few windows into the Bay?
Look at what the City of Key Biscayne is doing accross the Rickembacker Cway: about 136 detrimental Australian "Pines" chopped away. Then about 50 trees/plants RELOCATED. Then about 350 new, beneficial, indigenous trees planted instead, plus the re-creation and revitalization of natural sandy lanscapes by the Water. Now that's serious work.
Seaside Mahoes should go. I know Parks Dept is removing them at Kennedy Park, so perhaps they will remove them at Peacock.
As for the Glass House, perhaps there could be a way in which all were served as a Community House that could encompass the Chamber, a Visitor Center / Grove Museum, with a community conference room that could be booked for use by different organizations for meetings, and which private citizens could book for events such as reunions and Children's parties (which would help pay for the facility). The Chamber could take on the "running" of the facility.
The side in which the Chamber currently is could house a "Shake Shack" style place where snacks could be purchased so that people could enjoy them on the terrace, so that the City could continue to make money.
These are my ideas and in no way the Chamber's point of view.
Its about monty and marc. done deal.
"Seaside Mahoes should go. I know Parks Dept is removing them at Kennedy Park, so perhaps they will remove them at Peacock."
A few months ago, they improperly cut very few of the hundreds they marked with bright orange paint -- over a year ago. To this day, you can stroll by and see them for yourself. And they simply trimmed them a bit, so they are coming back stronger than ever. Nice pruning, in fact. Of the 900+ trees/shrubs they were targetted for erradication, including Brazilian Pepper, I'd venture to say 90% are still there. The RFP's, scientific studies, multiple meetings, detailed plans, were taken care of by the Tax payers a long time ago. The park is still nothing short of infested, especially by the Mahoes. I haven't heard of any initiative to remove them anywhere else in the Bay, and they are proliferating all over what's left of the waterviews.
Anon 1:40, Australian Pines are considered an invasive species. They are not protected, and all over Miami they are getting rid of them. They did it on the spoil islands a few years ago. Mangroves provide a habitat for juvenile fish and other wildlife. They also protect the shoreline in hurricanes. It would not be impossible to trim them or cut windows in them, but would be highly, highly unlikely they could be removed.
Michelle, I've learned quite a bit about Autralian pseudo-pines, Mangroves and many other beneficial or detrimental species in the past couple years. I was just wondering whether Relocating AND trimming a FEW selected mangroves at some key places for water-viewing would be such a creime. I certainly would like to see every single Seaside Mangrove uprooted and polished off with herbicide, the way it should be, not just manicured like they did only a few at Kennedy Park. Carlos Iglesia.
*'every Seaside Mahoe uprooted', I meant, not the Mangroves! Carlos
Carlos, just passing on what happened. Relocating mangroves did not seem to be a realistic option. Trimming and windowing did. The sad thing is at one time there was a beach there. Mangroves floated in and took root, and now they are sacred. I have a beautiful poster Glenn Terry gave me of the beach at Peacock Park with sand and palm trees. That being said, I'm a diver so I also value the habitat for baby fishies, and of course for our very own sailing club crocodile!
When I was a kid, the baseball diamond was near the water, there were shelters at the water's edge and it was open, you could sit at the shelter tables and see the water.
So is this issue positive for voting, negative against a restaurant or positive for a community center? Looks like all three to me. Heather has a right to her opinion whether positive or negative. And the community has a right to decide what they want with this Glass House that has been denied to them for far too long. A Community Center or a restaurant or a combination of the two will go a long way to attract more folks to Peacock Park and help make it the Groves Central Park. What we need to do if figure a way to allow locale Grovites to express their opinions and vote on the issues that concern us the most. We need not spend thousand of dollars with MDC Elections for advisory boards such as CGVC or the use of a public faculty like the Glass House. We need to consider e-mail voting, mail in voting or just a box to cast our votes at City Hall or a fire station.
As stated earlier why should most of us with kids have to go to Coral Gables or Key Biscayne. They both have successful revenue generating Community Centers that have acitivities and events for all ages. We need this and it is way over due. We also should be aloowed to VOTE on this. What about the parking lot at Monty's on S. Bayshore that is supposed to be Park spce as well? Why is it a parking lot?
That area, with my favorite, mysterious Amy Billig's Meditation spot there, should be reconstituted as a the beach it once was then! Open up the Water again.. See, that's sort of my point, moving around a few Mangroves here or there won't hurt the ecosystem at all, that's the way it was for decades before in some places, as you reminisced here. ah, politics..
Imagine a nice little beach with white sand a Cocoanut trees, right there, again, except even nicer than it used to be. It would bring countless curious visitors, tourists down from Grand Av. A huge boost to The Grove. That's what Coral Gables or Brickel don't have: the Water and the cool history. CI
We don't need another restaurant. Too many have already gone out of business. I'd like a Community Center but wonder how would we pay for it? Could it compete with all the health clubs? Even a yoga place would be better than another failing restaurant.
I read somewhere here in the Vine I think that there 18 empty restaurants in the Grove now. How about we fill them up first before we hand this over to a crony of the well connected.
Carlos, I know you are relatively new here, and apparently don't know about Amy Billig. Amy was a young woman who was abducted from the Grove in the 80's. I am not sure if she was found dead or never found. The meditation spot was placed there in her honor. Amy's mother, Sue Billig, was very active in the Grove. Sue died a couple of years ago.
Turn the glass house into a real tourist friendly welcome center and make BID tell tourist friendly countries, like China----WELCOME.
I think everyone is forgetting something on this post. WE NEED to KEEP the NET Staff & Office. Not maybe in this location but somewhere accessable in the Grove.
Love the Community Center, activities etc but we need Haydee to stay!
The community center is another expense for the city and that won't fly. They are cutting back, remember? If it stays it needs income.
The mysterious case of meditative young Amy Billig, who loved the park.. well, it got me curious ever since I started running through the Grove and her place there at Peacock Park almost 5 years ago, Google did the rest. The stuff Legends are made of..
"Amy Billig of Coconut Grove, Florida was 17 when she disappeared on 4 March 1974. It was believed by the family and by many others that Amy went for a ride with outlaw motorcycle "bikers" who were gathering for a yearly run from Daytona Beach. Her camera was found two days later on the Florida Turnpike, but Amy was never seen again. Information which came to her family from various sources indicated that she stayed with the bikers for some time, but bikers who would initially offer to help, quickly changed their minds and became uncooperative. "
Anon 5:05, we pay taxes to get services from the City, including parks and community centers. Who says a community center won't fly, and what gives him the right? If the City's supposed to be a profit center, why don't we get dividend checks? There are lots of ways for the city to cut costs and raise revenue other than to cut important programs and sell out our public spaces in the interest of "income." Check out some of these leases ... they're a joke.
There used to be a recreation building in the park, and it was staffed by people from the Recreation Dept. They had sporting equipment and organized sports for kids and adults.
The last thing you need is another restaurant, especially one that competes with private businesses. The trash issue is a big one, too.
The Grove is a hammock, and trees are a natural part of the eco-system -- not introduced species, but the native growth. Be very careful about what you do to the mangroves. Remember the coconut palms.
I vote less bureaucracy in Miami, and particularly in coconut grove. let's get rid of the Net, the BID, and any other groups spending our money in such a poor manner. Let the city rid itself of every sub-governmental agency it has. With all that extra money in our pockets, our businesses won't struggle so much, our residents will have extra money, and we'll all choose to give and spend money on what is important to us. We won't have to vote, we'll each have individual freedom to spend as we see fit.
Or we could just keep giving huge chunks of our hard earned money to people who claim to want only what's best for all, but somehow tend to benefit only a connected few.
Take away the free money and the corruption will move on as well.
Cut all political salries by 30% or more and interest will dwindle. We might get people who really want to serve.
ps. why do Miami cops make twice what prosecutors and public defenders make? the attorney's have huge student debt, turn down jobs paying 3 times as much (as they would make in the private sector) just to serve, and yet a barely literate cop, who sits in his a/c'ed car and tickets people makes twice as much.
Can you all read Coral Gables Youth Center is a huge revenue generating Profit Center for the City of Coral Gables so is Key Biscayne. A Community Center would more than pay for itself, unless our lovely officials find a way to screw it up.
A lot of words, but Commissioner Sarnoff has decided that there will be a resturant there and mark my words....by GOD he will get his way. Probably a done deal! Harry get real!
That Guy,
This may come as a shock, but the BID was voted into existence by a substantial majority of the district property owners. Now this might not jibe with one's knee-jerk animosity against all taxes, but that's the case. Further, the BID has actually existed for only six months, so it might be a bit premature to make snap judgments about its effectiveness. Unless, of course, one was on the losing side of the vote or is simply posturing as a contrarian blowhard.
Mangroves should never be removed. They are already almost gone due to all the bulkheads in Miami and they are ESSENTIAL FISH HABITAT. To suggest we remove them for the view is ridiculous. Whats more you need a permit to trim them and will be unlikely to get a permit to remove them merely to increase the view. As for the beach, I would like one too, unfortunately thanks to all the bulkhead shoreline it would only erode with time. How about we facilitate access to the shoreline? A small kayak launch would be really great down by the water. I also support the elevated walkways and think having a small beach on the opposite side of a spoil island is a great idea. I do think the most important thing for improving our coast is to pressure the county to meet its water quality obligations and put storm water treatment units on all the outflow into the bay. they are a major source of trash and grease/oil into the waters.
if they can't fund a net office with 3 people what makes you think they can fund a community center with museums, sports facilities, blah blah blah. what ever they put there that costs money will eventually get cut.
If our City Government was a private company everyone including the Mayor would have been long gone. They cannot budget anything and overpay for everything and line their own pockets. Everyone writing is complaining but in the end will Sarnoff get his way, and go against what the majority wants? Probably because this is what always happens in the Grove. Bend over it's coming again.
Thank you Heather for sound thinking. Except for the anonymous comments, I'm seeing a string of levelheadedness lately here on the Grape, mainly from Tom, Heather, Maria, Harry, Anna Maria, Matt, Liliana, Carlos, and Michelle. Even Jobie makes some excellent points.
This Grapevine thing works well as a public forum.
"As for the beach, I would like one too, unfortunately thanks to all the bulkhead shoreline it would only erode with time"
Please notice the numerous white-sand artificial beaches all over Sout Fl. and other States, including the one right in front of us, The Grove Towers there, slightly north of Kennedy Park. I lay down the kayak there sometimes (careful, private property..) With proper maintenance they can last all we want, you could have Calypso music, Orchids, cocoanut Painting contests, telescope Star gazing, you name it, it's very doable.
About the Mangroves, as goos as they are, a few more or a few less, c'mon.. in many places they weren't there a hundred years ago anyway. Just trim a few, and/or RELOCATE a few in KEY Waterfront spots, that all! And, get rid of the Seaside Mahoes, at least, open up the WATER, wherever possible: what's left of our waterfront, visible to the public, after you walk from the South to the North Grove? Can you imagine what opening up our Unique Bay would do for the Grove's Economy, not to mention the views for everyone?
In my effort to provide transparency, here is what just happened to me.
Recently I was sitting next to someone from Marc Sarnoff's office who saw this posting on the Grapevine and who qickly told me not to prejudge. That there would be an RFP going out and the idea was to model it after Bryant Park in New York. Well I almost slid off my chair.
Anyone who has lived in New York or maybe visited knows Bryant Park is a favorite local of Sex and the City filming because it is smack dab on 40th and 5th near the fashion district and the New York library. During the day people from nearby office buildings have lunch there sitting around eating from vendors and the little grill they have on site people watching.
In addition it houses very high profile fashion events during fashion week and other high profile celebrity events.
It is not in a quaint historic village by the bay. It is in a very high traffic, business district.
Go to www.bryantpark.org to see.
I said to this person we are not Bryant Park but I don't think they believed me.
Before an RFP goes out I suggest a feasability study be done. Let's find out how many offices here in the Grove will supply the legions of office workers to sit and sup in Peacock Park.
Let's put some huge lions at the entrance to Coconut Grove library while we are at it!
Marc's office fails to point out that in NYC the parks system provides all sorts of recreational opportunities to residents in pocket parks and larger parks all over the place: rollerblading on closed roads in Central Park on weekends, tennis lessons, horseback riding, lots and lots of places to sit on a bench and look at the water. And yes, some restaurants. To me, the primary purpose of the parks is to give the public access to activities and a gathering place. When we have those things, THEN maybe we can talk about adding a restaurant here and there. The Glass House is the ONLY building in Peacock Park. It has a great kids' program in it, the only tourist information center in the City of Miami at the Chamber office, and the NET. NET doesn't need to be there, but we shouldn't give up the whole building to one or two restaurants and eliminate facilities that give our community's children a place to go after school and on weekends where they can be physically active and stay out of trouble.
Interesting reading here. When I see over 35 comments something is afoot. This is an important issue to everyone in Coconut Grove. It would be nice to have a beach, right now I drive most mornings to SoBe. A community center is what the Glass House was and should again be. Unless the mangroves go don't expect tourist to go to the glass house either. I worked there for a stint and If you get 3 or 4 tourists a week feel lucky. Those that did trekked came from Bayshore Dr. Not from hotels, not from center Grove. We need an information center in the center of Coconut Grove, now! How will the restaurant feel about people wanting to use their facilities. They will be situated in a public park. The public Bathrooms have been closed for eons. Water spigots were removed as well. With this economy we need an influx of cash. Not from the tax base, tourism is what we need to reach for and think about.
Restaurants are failing (or have failed) all over the Grove. A restaurant is a bad and dumb idea. Community Center or a park is the right choice. Some bocce courts and horseshoe pits would go nicely with the Grove. The trees should stay. The shade is nice. We have enough waterfront views.
Well there Get over it, the bid, was previously the BIC - and guess who ran that as well? same people. (Hi Dave). They take money from businesses and invest it poorly. That's my point. I don't want more of that I want less.
The remainder of my comment was somewhat appropo of nothing, but seemed to flow with my thoughts at the time.
ps. I think the letter from Heather, makes some hefty and baseless assumptions.
That said, a community center there will leave the building useless within 6 months, once the initial interest has wained and everyone has moved on to a new pet project. Sad but true.
Wow, Popular topic no? I think it is because people realize what a great place Peacock could be. YES, open up some water views. Ten minutes of chainsawing would be fine... give us visual relief, a bay breeze and by golly, the fish would still be smiling.
Food? How's a little going to hurt? And please don't ask me to go eat the slop at Johnny Rockets.
Think of it as All Good. This really is a great opportunity for Coconut Grove. Put a little faith in Comm. Sarnoff to do somehting good for Peacock Park. The park office space is "outta here" and the people are going to get their community center back.
Yippee!
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