Another piece of history gone in a flash
Jenifer Briley, the architect behind the massacre of the St Stephen's historic 1912 church building and cloisters on Main Highway, proudly looks on at her handiwork with one of the parishioners.
This morning, tractors were brought in, the church was knocked down and the tractors took off. All within an hour or so.
Jenifer claims the 97 year old trusses holding up the building were not sound. Jeinfer and the people behind this desecration of history are the ones who are not sound.
This is all for the sake of retail. Retail stores will now line Main Highway, retail stores that will pay rent to greedy St. Stephen's. St. Stephen's will pay no taxes on the retail spaces and they can keep all rents paid in full, being a church and all. So all the businesses around these planned retail stores pay taxes, and the church who will own the new stores, will not.
It's all about money. One neighbor on the scene called it "wicked." Wicked it is.
Part of the on-going St. Stephen's saga
posted by Tom Falco at 10:42 AM
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48 Comments:
As for the church not paying property taxes, this is less than clear cut. The building on Main Highway housing the Christian Science Reading Room, a church-owned property, does pay some property taxes, presumably for the non-reading-room portion; the building on Commodore Plaza with the This 'N That Shop, another church-owned property, does not pay property taxes, presumably because the shop proceeds flow directly to the church.
So St. Stephen's may in fact be liable for property taxes if the stores are rented to non-affiliated businesses.
This is horrifying and I would like to tell that idiot "architect" that more civilized cities in our nation and Europe have figured out ways to RESTORE trusses of history not tear them down.
This is heartbreaking and another reason anyone coming to the grove for "culture" will be sadly disappointed to see its been replaced by a Gap.
But the real villains here of course, are the people of St Stephens that made this decision. You give other Episcopalians and God a bad name.
This - coming from the same parish that ran a cash-bar cabaret show last week?
Hope they install lots of lightning rods on this new structure. I have a feeling they're gonna need 'em.
At risk of sounding like a broken record:
sacrilege
–noun
1. the violation or profanation of anything sacred or held sacred.
2. an instance of this.
3. the stealing of anything consecrated to the service of God.
We are disgusted with this and will not be donating to St. Stephens again in any way, shape or form, including the arts festival, the cabaret and in the purchase of christmas trees.
Is this where our money is going? This is total nonsense.
The old church building has been de-sanctified for over 50 years.
Notice the picture: It has a huge air conditioning vent built into it in the 60s.
Even Jesus said I will tear this church down in three days and rebuild it - because it was not the building that mattered, but the people and that community that mattered.
And the facade that will be built in its place will honor the history and the people and the place more than the old one ever could.
This preschool building is being replaced with another school building. I don't get the crisis here. The bell and cross may be original but the tower surely isn't. Look at the different shapes of the outline. I have been in the building in the last 5 years and it was a total dump. Unforutnately this drama is being created without an understanding of the facts.
Many feel that the old building was quite strong, it was not condemned and it was usable. Keeping it would have been a better decision. It could have been anything from a museuum to a small library to a chapel.
Many parishioners (including myself) were told it would be saved and that is why we were for the plan. If this was such a good idea, why did they try to destroy it on a weekend at night?
It scares me that as Grovites and people who usually want to get to the bottom of the truth we're sitting here attacking St. Stephen's. A place that does provide us with a beutiful art show each year and is home to one of the best private schools in our community. All I'm seeing here are awful assumptions.
Hasn't St. Stephen's always had a retail space? It's been a home to the Grove House Artists for the past 2 years, our very own co-operative.
Gets me sick to see them chopping down that 100 yr old cross and bell.
"This is horrifying and I would like to tell that idiot "architect" that more civilized cities in our nation and Europe have figured out ways to RESTORE trusses of history not tear them down.."
Exactly right. It's not only a shame that this desecration of History, (and a beautiful Church!) is happening right in front of our eyes, but also that the City and our so-called "representatives" in the Grove did nothing to stop this, somehow, if at all possible, in time.
I don't know how this works, but shouldn't the City protect such Historical, classic, "Grovey' typical places??
Or it's just another case of money talks and everyone walks? I wish I had known about this earlier, to at least start bombarding with e-mails all of the guys, you know, Manny, Sarnoff, etc, etc. I run or bike by that Church every week, and drink at the water fountain right accross the street. I was a great place to stop by, take a look around, admire the little church, and keep on going. Now what? A McDonalds or whatever retail store?!! Argggghhh..
It's unnaceptable, shame on us, I suppose; but especially, shame on any officials, if they had any legal or at least MORAL recourse to have have stopped this vile, capitalistic blow on Cocoanut Grove's heritage.
Carlos Iglesia
Carlos Iglesia
Here are the facts as I've heard them;
- the building has not been used by the church since the late 50's
- the building was being used by the school until a year ago when they were told it was had mold, was two feet under flood elevation and unsound
- the Episcopal Bishop blessed the new building plans
- the Church and School community saw a three dimensional model of the proposed new building before it was approved
- the only retail store is the one run by the church and it was a mandate per zoning so the City required it
- the bell and cross are being used in the new building
Those saying this all happened over night, wrong again, it's been in the limelight for over two years.
Anon at 2:31pm.
With all due respect, about those facts you list, so what??
The real fact is that a beautiful, historic building that helped define the Grove was axed-down after 100 years. For profit. Period. Most developed cities worldwide just do not allow that to even be considered!
No sense of History or community pride or old-fashioned aesthetics whatsoever. I don't care what they'll do with the place, a Burger King, some modern school, with a "pretend" mimicking facade. The dammage is done. Hope a lot of people, including the "church" people there make a lot of MONEY. Congrats!
Carlos
And with all due respect, the school being rebuilt there is a non-for-profit!
Again, so what? even if they built another Shake-a-leg, and not a single store for profit, you just don't chop down historical Land Marks like that. You RESTORE them.
Or you find other places to build. And I'm not convinced AT ALL there weren't many powerful monetary motives behind this despicable demolition of a 100 y/o structure, or that many influencial, rather insensitive people with a lot of political influence and personal interests in that area. We weren't born yesterday, you know.. The result is clear: our Children will never get to enjoy the Old Church or bulding many of us gazed at under the trees for years here. And History was abused, instead of restored. You know why, the usual reasons these days..CI
If there's one thing Miami needs right now, it's more retail!
Carlos,
Are you a member or otherwise involved with St. Stephen's or is your interest limited to running or biking by the church every week, drinking at the water fountain across the street and then pitching a hissy fit when they decide to do something with their own private property without checking with you?
Just checkin'.. you deserve this reply:
I had heard that there is a
plan to "relocate" the historical
Womens Club across the street and
replace it with another high-rise
condo. It is the only parcel remaining for such a project.
Remember this one from Sunday School? "Here is the church, here is the steeple; open the door and see all the people". What's getting lost in all this is that churches are not buildings (well some are in Europe that have been turned into museums for tourists because no one attends any more). Churches are people. And when the building gets in the way of serving the people it has lost its purpose. Churches have had an "edifice complex" for way too long.
Just imagine the ruckus 100 years from now when the preservationists are up at arms to protect the first green school in Miami-Dade
Oh please they charge @ $17000.00 per year per student even for Pre K
And then they continue to ask for $$$ & donations
Not for profit is a bunch of BS, they're greedy!
Isn't one of the main Tourism attractions a little taste of History? Why do people from evry corner of the World go to Europe or Asia, Egypt, etc?
So let's tear down the Barnacle too, that's valuable real estate. Probably in high flooding risk too. We could build another Grove Marina hangar right there, and an office building, heck, who cares about History in Miami, at this pace it will never have one.
Interesting. Too bad no one pushed them a few years ago to get a City of Miami Historical Designation - wouldn't have been allowed to be demolished if that was the case, I think.
The building clearly isnt the same one it was approx 100 years ago. The pics are completely different. And "just checkin" is right, just not about Carlos in particular but more as part of a group. Everyone likes to get up in arms about stuff like this like they shouldve been consulted before someone else decided to do something with the property that they bought and own. Get over yourselves already. I guarantee that, outside of the Art Festival, 99% of these complainers didnt set foot on the property in the past 100 years. The only thing "green" about keeping the building would be peoples faces as they threw up from becoming sickened by the vast amount of mold built up in the structure. But that would be ok as long as a remodeled building still stands vacant, right?
Let's keep our eyes and ears open for similar attack on other Grove buildings, especially the Coconut Grove Playhouse. One day you may wake up and see there is a Walgreen ground barking there. Let's get that building reactivated soon.
I just sit back and watch all of this gnashing of teeth, and chuckle to myself. Aren't these the same people who complain that there aren't enough small businesses in the Grove? Are these the same people who constantly bitch and whine about the lack of different types of shops and eateries in the Grove?
Don't these people understand that, when you impose restrictions on how property can be used, you necessarily raise the barriers to making productive use of that property, and thus prevent small investors from going into business?
And yet, these same people fail to see the irony in raising hell over the fact that a church (or anybody) would have the unmitigated gall to do whatever is legally permissible to do with their own property.
Get lives, folks. It ain't your business.
Hey -- cmon -- you wouldn't be referring to the PLAYHOUSE -- it will stand vacant and empty forever. Is that good for the Grove?????????????
In light of the above comments debunking your "fom what I've heard comments, what do you have to say for yourself and for the community anon. Do you have a name, what are your special interests:
Let me quote your own words, and then read the subsequent replies, I'm sure you won't reply to any of them specifically.. CI
"Here are the facts as I've heard them;
- the building has not been used by the church since the late 50's
- the building was being used by the school until a year ago when they were told it was had mold, was two feet under flood elevation and unsound
- the Episcopal Bishop blessed the new building plans
- the Church and School community saw a three dimensional model of the proposed new building before it was approved
- the only retail store is the one run by the church and it was a mandate per zoning so the City required it
- the bell and cross are being used in the new building
Those saying this all happened over night, wrong again, it's been in the limelight for over two years.
May 04, 2009 2:31 PM"
and then "non-profit" schools" yeah right. Zero intrerests involved to knock-down the Historic Church, huh..
May you Read all the comments, plus the majority of unspoken Grovite opinions that you can gather in the streets, your anonymous profile might come in handy. What a shame they tore down that historic building! Period.
Carlos
This is sickening...and the first thing the demo crew took a sledge hammer to was the cross?
Right after the pastor made an agreement with the preservationists to have a mediation on Tuesday?
I bet she instructed them to go for the cross first so she could show those evil historians and preservationist whose boss...
Sounds almost satanic!
But the Episcopal Bishop blessed the new building plans....
So, it all good.
And what does "it's been on the limelight for over 2 years" mean, exactly?
The papers, City Hall, Village Council Meetings? I bet it's been kept as underground as possible, really don't know.
Just a shame. Be proud of yourselves, whoever is profiting from destroying our .
There is a list of donors (a few hundred) in the ground breaking program. Almost all were under the impression that the chapel was being preserved. If they have any integrity at all they will pull their money out and offer it up to repair the chapel!
..."it's been on the limelight for over 2 years" ...means they've been lying about it for over two years...going around showing a rendering to people that shows the chapel preserved and in tact.
It's on the front cover of the permit documents that the city has on file, it's in Dr. Paul Georges Book (they lied to Dr. Paul George!)
The hundreds of donors listed in the ground breaking program need to pull thier money out and put it in a special fund to repair and restore the chapel.
Then, the church needs to find a new pastor and the school needs to find a new director.
This is the ONLY way that the church can redeem itself.
Let's not put this matter to rest, Grovites. Let's find out EXACTLY what went on here. As per previos posts, and then some more suspect facts yet to surface. CI
I am not sure why everyone is blaming St. Stephens 100%. Yes they knew what they were doing but our lovely CITY approved everything. Once again City Staff dropped the ball. Why isn't the City getting any blame. I am sure the plans were in review for years. Why doesn't Jim DeFede look into who got paid off?
Grape can you publish the list of donors from the groundbreaking? That list should be interesting?
I have an idea. Why don't we nominate "block leaders" for every neighborhood? Their job will be to report any activity to a "central committee" that relates to changes to real and personal property. Once the central committee receives a report, the members can vote on whether to forward the matter to the "fast action" task force. This task force will be charged with undertaking all efforts, legal and otherwise, to put a stop to any changes that any property owner is trying to make, until such time that the property owner has petitioned the central committee and gained approval by a unanimous vote.
Nominations, anyone?
We already have block captains. They ae asleep at the job.
Yeah, anon 10:43, let's start spying on our neighbors and causing a huge ruckus anytime they do something with their investment we don't like?!?!?!!?: Are you F***ing kidding me.
I'm angry right now if you can't tell. I cannot believe the grove is now this full of facists, who want to control every aspect of one another's lives. What happened to personal freedom?
I will add that I have not seen one comment from one person who attends St. Stephens. It's not your church, so you get no say. go mind your own business. This is not public property and you have no rights in it.
ps. the beginning of this post isn't so much about this church as it is the ethos of many of these comments.
Why?
You Know those historical places that your family loves to go to? The museums where you learn about
the history of Miami and Florida and any other places you know. You can learn the time period and
make it part of something you learned in school. There are lots of things you can do with this knowledge. But
those historical places are being torn down. For example, the old St. Stevens Chaple is being torn down
right now. I know people want to build new malls, stores and restaurants but what about the people who have
never been there before?
It is also not good for the planet. When people tear down buildings, the construction has to go to the dump.
Nobody is thinking about this now but later people will start to care about this when they have diseased food
and bad water. But then they won't be able to do anything about it then. So start thinking about it now not later.
Garland
Grovite
9 years old
The cross was not smashed but taken down and stored to be put on the new building, along with the original bell and historical plaques. The amount of misinformation whizzing back and forth on this blog is astounding. And the assumptions? Let's not forget that to "assume" makes an "ass of u and me".
So they saved the cross and bell? ok great 1:11 then i guess all is good. So if we tore down the statute of liberty but save a toenail that would be preservation right? What a bunch of idiots.
What i want to know was whether anyone in this community received a public notice? They have to inform people living near them of a project of this size. I do not call reading anything. If that is the case the city is in deep doodoo. I think its time we find out the facts and drag their butts to court once and for all.
"So they saved the cross and bell? ok great 1:11 then i guess all is good. So if we tore down the statute of liberty but save a toenail that would be preservation right? What a bunch of idiots. "
Couldn't have said it better.
Idiots is not enough, though, IGNORANT Money Oriented people with difinite interests, agendas, and all is the right term.
Shame on you all who tore down this historic building. What are your names? I'd like to meet you, just to see what you can say for yourselves. Private property,,, yeah, yeah yeah. $$$$$$ of course. God Bless.
Carlos Iglesia
and I must add, last comment on this sad topic, Shame on YOU Mr Sarnoff, Shame on ALL of our "Grove representatives" all of you City officials, from the top down. You are supposed to watch out of this kind of... let's leave it at that.
I don't care what the technical details are. Not at all. The fact is that a beautiful Historical Church or Building was demolished.
Try butchering such an Historic place in Most well-run Cities Worldwide.
Great job. Enjoy the cash, whom ever is getting it. Save some pictures of the original Church for your kids, if you have them, coz they'll never get to see the real 100 y/o historic Building.
Last comment on this.
Carlos Iglesia
LOL!!! First timer on the blog. We ALL need to get a life. The Grove suffers most from this kind of absurd disagreement. I think a great building built by an incredible architect will serve us better than a structure most of us didn't notice or could use because it's a SCHOOL building. That's exactly what's going in its place. For cryin out loud let those little kids enjoy our community and take part in its history by having great memories of their time here and bringing their families back someday.
I've lived near the church for 20 years and other than the art festival never been on the grounds.
Why is it historical?
Because it's old?
Why do I care what this privte group does with their building as long as it's within the confines of the law?
Anonymous 2:31 PM said...Here are the facts as I've heard them;
- the building has not been used by the church since the late 50's
- the building was being used by the school until a year ago when they were told it was had mold, was two feet under flood elevation and unsound
Your "facts" contradict each other. Blatantly so.
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