Village Council Member Michelle Niemeyer responds to a reader's anonymous commentVillage Council Member Michelle Niemeyer (left) was a bit upset over this comment left by an anonymous person on the Grove Harbour Marina story. She called me today to ask my opinion. I told her to give me her response so I can post it here.
I can't blame Michelle for being upset. Too many people like to libel people anonymously and I think from now on, I am going to stop these anonymous comments from being published. While we all believe in the freedom of press, I do think that if you want to slander or libel someone, you should have the guts to sign your name to your vitriol.
If you have facts and have a name to sign to your facts, please do, we want to hear it. If you have nasty things to say anonymously, hit the "delete" button before you actually hit the "send" button.
Here is the anonymous comment in question:
"Village Council members Michelle Neimeyer and Lottie Person were in favor of the plan, for various reasons of their own. Interesting, isn't she the biggest supporter of Sanchez? We have to stop Grove Harbor, Remember what we did with Mercy so lets be vigilant."
Here is Michelle's response:
It is not possible for something to secretly go before the Commission. The Commission agendas are posted on the City's website here. and should be there ten days before each meeting. Same for the advisory boards, although they are not always as good about getting the agendas up on time. Ron in Marc Sarnoff's office can help get these things, too. Once you've downloaded the agenda, you can also click on attachments, often plans, reports from the planning department, etc.
Yes, I absolutely support Joe Sanchez and strongly believe he is the best candidate to be our next Mayor. We will be having a number of "meet and greet" events in the Grove and I hope you, Anonymous, will come to one of them and meet him, let him know about your concerns and what you want to see for our City, and then make up your own mind.
I did support the Grove Harbour building, but have not done so before the Commission since the Village Council voted against it. In my capacity as Village Council Chairwoman I presented the Council's position on the project, not my own.
My reasons for supporting it have been explained ad nausaeum in this blog. I believe having a large, shady place with tables and seating and landscaping, paid for and maintained by Grove Harbour, along the baywalk enhances the whole concept of the public realm. If the new building is not built the old one can stay, with its 22 foot setback that's grandfathered in as it is.
The improvements to the public realm Grove Harbour agreed to make are consistent with what I and many of our neighbors fought for in providing input to and supporting the passage of the waterfront master plan. Sometimes it is possible to reach a compromise that benefits both parties, and Grove Harbour agreed to such a compromise. I do not have a personal, business or financial relationship with Grove Harbour in any way.
To the extent your gutless anonymous post implies that, I ask that you stop defaming me with these insinuations. I give a great deal of my time to this community, at a significant cost due to time away from my real work, with no compensation of any kind. You, Anonymous, do not even have the character to sign your name.
Michelle Niemeyer
Cocoanut Grove Village Council
posted by Tom Falco at 2:00 PM
YOU MAY NOT LIFT THE PHOTOS & TEXT. IT'S COPYRIGHTED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. YOU CAN HOWEVER SHARE A STORY ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY USING THE LINKS HERE.
For linking to this one story, just click on the time it was posted & just this story will open for sharing - only through social media. Not copying and pasting.
30 Comments:
Where would the South Florida blogosphere be without its chickenshit anonymous commenters?
Hi I am the one who posted anonymously and for good reason.
First I will defend my remark, I quoted word for word what the grape posted in the previous article (original one for grove harbor) And I simply noticed a connection, Michelle supported Mercy Towers (she defended Sanchez's position of making it smaller) She voted for Grove Harbor and I believe that there is a connection here. Is Michelle a bad person to support Joe? No. Is Joe a bad person? No. I just dont agree with either of their views.
Especially her defending certain projects because the Grove village council approved it. Who cares? The City Commission has approved dozen of things that I hate.
So I wouldnt call my remark "gutless" I only quoted what the Grapevine wrote and added an obvious addendum that you support Joe.
So how am I defaming you?
Please Ms. Niemeyer do not blow this out of proportion.
Now why am I anonymous because I can speak my mind. Grape approves all the messages before its posted so anything that is actually aggressive etc is phased out.
So again, whats your problem?
Oh and yes I know why people want the Grove Harbor, and I know why I DO NOT want it.
well Michelle if the shoe fits you are going to have to wear it, sorry..
I completely agree with the posting above, and if she knows our names what good is that? Because we can always adopt a fake name, is she going to get us fired from our jobs? Give me a break. Just because our views are different from Michell, so what we have a right to our opinion!
Is this woman that powerful that you can't even speak your minds behind your real names?
So much for democracy.
So much for democracy?
I think a democracy is exactly what Grape has. Whats your big problem with having anonymous postings
Build a bridge, get over it
Oh that Joe, he really loves the ladies and they love him. Has Michelle fallen under his spell?
And then there's the little thing about his wife working for Greenberg Traurig. They represent the Marlins and also the Related Group (the Mercy condos).
And Joe works for the Indians out west, who have a marketing deal with the Marlins.
Very cozy.
I guess you're right. A democracy allows those with no balls, spine or guts to speak their minds without using their names.
How did anonymous "defame" or "libel" her? He/She said that Niemeyer supports the plan for various reasons; her letter confirms that. Anonymous said Niemeyer is a big supporter of Sanchez; her letter confirms that. Sure, Anonymous insinuates certain things with that comment, but defamation and libel are strong accusations in the world of free-flowing communication!
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, yep it's a duck!!
Michelle has been called out, and she's crying wolf!!
Only the dishonest hide behind anonymity.
Oh please, I cant believe some of you are serious.
Comparing Democracy to an anonymous poster on a blog?
Talk about making a mole hill out of a mountain.
Do we have to know everyones background to have an opinion. The Grapevine has been doing a standup job.
And as far as Michelle and this "slander"
http://coconutgrovegrapevine.blogspot.com/2008/09/going-from-150-square-feet-to-21600.html
The whole "slander" was quoted from the grapevine itself.
People can just go back to the original post here in the Grape about the infamous Grove Harbor Marina Office Building. Whatever "compromise" they are trying to throw in, like a few tables out there between Charthouse and the Fresh Market is just an obvious delusion to sidetrack those who oppose yet another assault to our scarce, invaded Waterfront.
The simple fact remains that it's a Huge 22 Thousand Square Ft. Office concrete building several stories high, mainly for some private, exclusive parties for wealthy boat owners. And it's only 22ft away from the water, violating the 50ft set-back rule contemplated in the Waterfront project.
It's all about money interests for an influential minority, it would further block one of the few Waterview spots we, the average people, residents, tourists, visitors have left in the Grove Bayside. Please read further on the previous blog about this and go visit in person the proposed spot itself for this Huge aberrant building, with this Data. You'll see what we mean.
Carlos Iglesia
Grape you can find out who anonymous bloggers are using their IP address but then they wouldn't be anonymous.
This sounds like the work of the wife of someone at City Hall? You thinkyou are hiding but, You know who you are and so do we!
Tony and others, anonymous postings are here for good reason. Even though I am not involved in this conversation I would like to make it clear that as much as some of us don't want to post anonymously, we have to. Some of us are business owners who constantly have "backlashes" from city officials because of things we say or support. Remaining anonymous is the only way we can speak our minds without being "roughed around" by people like code inspectors. Grape, if you remove the anonymous option, you will lose a lot of your readers. Please don't. I am on your blog all day and would hate to lose this option.
The IP address only goes as deep as the IP provider. Court order is required to go deeper.
Agreed, I have come to love the Grapevine. I work in the Grove and live on the otherside of US1. The Grapevine fills a much needed void.
I question the nasty tone of Michelle's rant
-Louis
Am I the only one who didn't see anything "defamatory, libelous, or slanderous" about the comment that brought such a harsh personal attack in response? First, to all the people on here who use those terms, you really need to learn what they mean, otherwise you sound stupid.
That said, I agree with Michelle's position on grove harbor, and have no issues with her representation in general. I just wish she'd have reacted less personally.
For the record:
Slander (not really actionable in most jurisdictions today) is a person to person oral statement, that is false, defamatory and intended to harm the reputation of the object.
Libel (actually a viable tort claim, but damages are hard to demonstrate) is a "published" false statement, which is defamatory, was at least negligently if not willfully made, and special damages must be proven (hurt feelings don't count).
Finally, to defame (an element of both torts) means to hold someone out to ridicule and injure his or her reputation.
It should also be mentioned that public figures, such as politicians, have voluntarily entered the public spectrum, and must prove a higher standard than negligence. A public figure must prove that the speaker knew the statement was false or was reckless in his or her disregard for the veracity of the statement, meaning that he or she could have easily discovered its falsity.
Just trying to help.
I agree there was nothing libelous about the statements and people are entitled to their opinions, especially about public officials, which is even more the reason to back up your opinions with your name.
There shouldn't be anything to be afraid of.
Fixing this "anonymous" thing is very easy. Go to yahoo, hotmail, gmail, or some other web-based email provider. Sign up and select a nick - of your choice, does not have to identify you. Then give that address to blogger so you can sign in and post with that ID and email. Blogger lets you pick a nick, in fact, insists on it, as they don't publish your email address.
Why do this? To end the confusion of different voices, different points of view all signed "Anonymous." Yet you can still remain "anonymous."
Ya know, this has been rattling around in the back of my mind this afternoon, because something seemed off.
Here's what's strange: This post does not properly quote the anonymous comment in that it failed to include the comments original quotes around the first sentence.
While I'm not sure what part of that fired Michelle up, I assume it was "for various reasons of their own"? which doesn't make much sense, but the only other thing that could have upset here is "Interesting, isn't she the biggest supporter of the Sanchez?" Which one of these is defamatory and how? If it's the first one, the commentor was quoting [grapevine I think] and not using his or her own words.
The only thing even close to defamatory that I read today on here was Michelle's thin-skin showing itself in her name calling eg. "gutless" and "do not even have the character".
If a comment like this gets under your skin, politics isn't your game.
I second that last comment, well said...
Are you kidding? Do you seriously think it is required to write with a name? Now you are dictating freedom of speech. I agree with Anon 1:02, the backlash in our town would be too severe that writing anonymously has almost become a last surviving sacred right. This is being discussed in light of perhaps the biggest fraud in history perpetrated by the financial institutions and supported by almost every elected federal official in the country. This would have not happened if industry and the government did not actively and severely suppress discussion and whistle blowers to protect their echelon. Writing anonymously is a right.
Hey isn't publicity good even if it is bad ... that is what this sounds like. The best is yet to come.
I have blogged here for a while. This blog has more anonymous posts than real names, and more on any blog that I have seen. Why are people afraid to put their names with words? If you got something to say, own up to it!
As you can see from this blog post, libelous comments can tarnish one's reputation and hurt feelings. It also helps if you know what you are talking about.
Hiding behind anonymous is pathetic. Come on down to Council meetings and say what you have to say, and hear what is really going on. Have good manners, blog with identity.
On many blogs "anonymous" bloggers are unable and unallowed to post. Mr. Falco, thank you for starting the practice here!
Marlins Bailout. Vote upcoming.
Since this scam will use up 100% and more of all the bed tax money and since this upcoming vote for "baseball" will cost the taxpayers well in excess of $2 billion, how can Joe Sanchez justify mortgaging his children's future? And his grandchildren's future?
I agree with DoctorJ, now on anyone entering Coconut Grove must wear a name tag. Fascism has become so fashionable.
Gee DoctorJ posting your email name really tells us who you are. Same thing as anonymous to me. And would someone please tell Michelle Niemyer to quit rambling - she can rant and say less in more paragraphs than I have seen in a long time, but then again she is a lawyer. Can you say "brief"?
What is the story with Joe Sanchez? He wants to be the Mayor but he acts like he works for whoever owns the Marlins.
Maybe the Misosukees who Sanchez does work for might have some interest in it or get some publicity. We all know they have so much money and never feel they have to follow the rules like everyone else particularly if you have a traffic accident or criminal incident in their jurisdiction.
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