CocoWalk is not bohemian enough for Grove
I don't think CocoWalk fits into the Grove anymore. Has it ever? Management doesn't understand that they are not the Bal Harbour Shops or Merrick Park.
The owners of CocoWalk are from New Orleans, I believe, but CocoWalk isn't even bohemian enough for New Orleans.
It's a shame that we can't have the likes of Monty Trainer to run CocoWalk or AnnaMaria Windisch-Hunt or Felice Dubin, or Liliana Dones -- you know -- GROVE PEOPLE.
Why is it ok for a new tenant to call the customers of another tenant an "imported drunken crowd?" Is this the new sort of business CocoWalk is trying to draw -- elitist snobs? To many people Tu Tu Tango IS CocoWalk and when it is gone, CocoWalk will be just another mall. There is nothing at CocoWalk that says Coconut Grove anymore. There's nothing unique. Is there? It's just a bunch of chain stores. You could be in Anytown, USA.
People come to Coconut Grove because it is different. They aren't coming here for The Cheesecake Factory, The Gap or Starbucks. While there is room for all of these great businesses, let's not discard the businesses that make the Grove special. I would rather see an "imported drunken crowd" than "imported elitist snobs" any day of the week.
Bring some local businesses to CocoWalk and Mayfair. Give them a break on the rents so they have a fighting chance.
The owners of CocoWalk are from New Orleans, I believe, but CocoWalk isn't even bohemian enough for New Orleans.
It's a shame that we can't have the likes of Monty Trainer to run CocoWalk or AnnaMaria Windisch-Hunt or Felice Dubin, or Liliana Dones -- you know -- GROVE PEOPLE.
Why is it ok for a new tenant to call the customers of another tenant an "imported drunken crowd?" Is this the new sort of business CocoWalk is trying to draw -- elitist snobs? To many people Tu Tu Tango IS CocoWalk and when it is gone, CocoWalk will be just another mall. There is nothing at CocoWalk that says Coconut Grove anymore. There's nothing unique. Is there? It's just a bunch of chain stores. You could be in Anytown, USA.
People come to Coconut Grove because it is different. They aren't coming here for The Cheesecake Factory, The Gap or Starbucks. While there is room for all of these great businesses, let's not discard the businesses that make the Grove special. I would rather see an "imported drunken crowd" than "imported elitist snobs" any day of the week.
Bring some local businesses to CocoWalk and Mayfair. Give them a break on the rents so they have a fighting chance.
posted by Tom Falco at 7:46 AM
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46 Comments:
Mayfair tried being elitist snobs when they first opened. Remember the overpriced Burdines and all those Bal Harbour designer stores that went bust?
They actually had to knock the place down and reconfigure it.
The Grove doesn't want that. Didn't work then, won't work now. Wake up CocoWalk. Don't let history repeat itself. Be user friendly for the Grove residents and visitors.
Let Us all be FRIENDLY and not talk about other business....
CocoWalk IS the heart of Coconut Grove. By saying it no longer fits into the Grove shows how uneducated you are... So you prefer a decrepit run down center that no one wishes to go to? Is that your idealism of the Grove?
The fact you think having owners from New Orleans is a problem is beyond any reason... at least they have the vision and the capital to improve and reinvigorate the heart of the Grove and for the GROVE PEOPLE! Why don't you ask Monty, Felice and Liliana - they are doing everything in their power to promote CocoWalk! They, as like many are thrilled with the changes and improvements...
The Tenant you continue to crucify was referring to an "imported" drunken crowd - you know folks from other areas that do not take pride in the Grove! Drunken crowds that have no respect of property!
The door is open for Cafe Tu Tu Tango to stay... get it through your head - NO ONE goes there anymore... They can't afford to stay like the other Tenants...
People will continue to come to Coconut Grove - show me different.
Anonymous - just like you.
Knock down CocoWalk, it is not relevant to the Grove and never was. No one shops there.
Knock down CocoWalk?
Buddy - put your money where your mouth is and buy it - then knock it down....
Anonymous (9:27 am), you are the uneducated one. Please email me, I would like to meet you at CocoWalk and go for a little tour. Maybe give you a clue as to what is what.
Cocowalk is pure cheese. No authenticity whatsoever.
If Cocowalk "has never been relevant to the Grove" so why is the big deal? why are you so upset about?
Like it or not "COCOWALK" IS and will always be in the map...
Cocowalk serves no purpose except to line the pockets of the owners. Even Mayfair has some local flavor with the bookstore and art galleries and other stores like out of africa and hibiscus hill, but cocowalk is a total eyesore and waste of space. I have hated it since the day it was constructed.
For me, all these bad comments about Cocowalk seems to be a “CONSPIRACY”… and I’m more than sure that is coming from the "same" merchant’s group that are always complaining for everything… or even maybe is just an old employee that wishes to still be there… oh well , who knows!!
"CocoWalk is not Bohemian enough for Grove" --
who even uses the word "Bohemian" any more. Quit living in the past! Change happens. Live it.
I think people want to see CocoWalk change for the better. How is that a conspiracy? All we are saying is bring in some local merchants and business that is unique to the Grove. Stop with the chain stores.
When we have guests visiting from out of town we take them to Scotty's Landing, Monty's and Commodore Plaza, we don't take them to Cocowalk. They can see all that in their own hometown.
And as a local, there is nothing really at Cocowalk for me. Just the movies I guess.
anon 9:59, you're ignit. i'd love to hear your suggestions on what type of "local merchants" you'd like to see at cocowalk that will generate the bucks to keep the lights on. the economy is in the toilet, they're gonna take what they can get.
SILK, maybe Cocowalk can ask Mayfair about the majority of their local merchants who seem to be making it and paying the bills like THE BOOKSTORE, CIELO, OUT OF AFRICA, THE ART GALLERIES, THE HAIR SALONS, HIBISCUS HILL, THE CLOTHING STORES all local businesses and making it.
Cocowalk is out of touch for the area. Mayfair is starting to get it right.
Mr. Uneducated Grapevine....
I will be happy to meet with you. However, I'm not sure what good it will do...You obviously are bias and closed minded. Your reporting is one-sided, clearly angry and attacking.
Once you are presented with the facts of what is what - my hunch is your reporting strategies will remain the same...
anon 10:13, mayfair is 25% full and you could make the case that cocowalk has an equivelent for every store you mentioned except for the bookstore. plus cocowalk has an athletic store, movie theatre, hi-fi store, better restaurants, etc...point is cocowalk is fine, get over the tu tu tango thing.
I pity the fool!
"He doesn't realize"....
Damn, the thought he may be a she never crossed your mind or should I say crossed your fleeting thoughts....
FYI
A meeting was requested with the Grape weeks ago... It is the Grape who has refused to meet!
Case closed: The person calling me uneducated is management at CocoWalk.
I never met with them because they wanted to tell me about "all their new programs" like the American Idol TV night and the face painting. That is what they wanted to talk about. They didn't want to talk about their exorbitant
rents, their falling and crumbling second floor, the water leaks and creaky flooring at Tu Tu Tango and Chili's.
They wanted to talk about "Family Day" and the "Fashion Show."
I will also post some responses sent by their mall manager soon. You'll see why I did not want to meet with these out of touch people.
Stay tuned.
Monty Trainer - not a bad idea.
AnnaMaria Windisch-Hunt or Felice Dubin - Only time will tell whether their businesses will make it in the Grove over the long run.
Liliana Dones - Please! You must be kidding right? I thought "elitist snobs" was something you wished to avoid!
TuTu Tango was not bohemian. It was a glorified TGI Fridays full of southbeach tourist rejects. Cocowalk is never going to be anything other than what it is: a crappy mall from Anytown, USA.
Mr. Uneducated Grapevine,
Again you distort the facts.
The topics you list for not wanting to meet with CocoWalk are events planned by the CocoWalk Marketing Dept. Sure they would like to meet with you and update you on all the activities planned, nothing wrong with that.
However, It was I that invited you to lunch to discuss specific facts and updates.
You responded that you needed to interview other Tenants prior to a meeting. However, you are still reporting a very one-sided bitter story without journalistic respect to learning all the facts.
I rest my case.
If you have the guts to meet me, then call.
Well, the truth is we don’t really know what’s going… sometimes merchants are not what we think...if it rains "they blame the mall", if they don't have money to pay their rent (e.g. Café Tu Tu Tango and “many others”) “they blame the mall”…etc.
We are all giving our opinion here (including me) the reality is that the “economy” is not helping at all… the lack of sales is everywhere and in general the economy is bad; is not just Cocowalk or the Mayfair... I’m sure that even Dadeland, Village of Merrick Park, Sunset, etc. are going exactly through the same thing; so let’s better face it and accept it but stop blaming Cocowalk or any other business because of anyone’s personal frustrations…
EVERYONE...GET A JOB!!! don't you have anything else better to do?
Regardless of who is right and who is wrong when it comes to reasons behind the closing of Cafe Tu Tu Tango and the current state of Cocowalk, getting angry and starting a smear campaign on a blog is never the answer. If anything, it makes the opposing side not want to work out an amicable solution even more. Once again, I think Grapevine is making a knee-jerk reaction without at least trying to see where the management at Cocowalk is coming from. Take the high road man...
I dont like the current state of Cocowalk any more than the next guy. However, Cocowalk management seems to be trying to push for a solution, even if that solution isnt what Grapevine and his art buddies want to see. Change doesnt happen overnight. At least in the meantime there will be storefronts for artists to display their works without getting killed on high rents. Its all about a little give and take.
Some things right at the beginning:
(1) I don't like Tu Tu Tango; I think their food is mediocre at best, but this is not about TTT
(2) I happen to like CocoWalk. It's gotten seedier, but I still like it.
(3) I think the "imported drunken crowd" comment is not only in poor taste, but dumb in a business that is trying to get clients.
Having said that, I read these posts about TTT and CW and all that and I think to myself: are they adults? Are these writers grown up?
First - Most don't dare to sign their real name. This is telling, in and of itself.
Second - CocoWalk, TTT, the art galleries and the Full Bodied Wine & Spa... they are all businesses. Some live, some die, some slower, some faster. There is an underlying tone that is almost naive in which some people say "give them a break" as if there were a single central authority who decided that. The decision is made by a collection of greedier or not as greedy owners.
Third - There is another naive (not to say hugely unrealistic) undercurrent of socialism. Private property is private property. There is no per-se need for private property owners to even try to attempt to do common good.
It is good business. It is good Karma. But there is no requirement of any kind. That's, supposedly, what governments are for.
Keep having statements like "to many people Tu Tu Tango IS Cocowalk" and no one will take you seriously anymore. If you are coldly objective about it, Tu Tu Tango failed because people stopped going. Actually, to me, Fat Tuesday is CocoWalk... and I don't go at all. But I like Hooters, which I find attractively cheesy.
Local businesses by and large, in the Grove, have failed miserably. They bring "trendy" merchadise which is way overpriced not realizing that most of the shoppers with money in the Grove (and, if you don't believe this, walk around) are middle aged upper middle class people. So they bomb.
Statements like "it is a shame we can't have the likes..." Also come across as nave. Do you think that there is a centralized government agency that appoints businesspeople?
I have looked into buying a business and, boy, it is easily into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Probably much more.
So it isn't as if "we should have" but rather "who's willing to take the risk".
On another bent, Monty Trainer would be horrible. His dealings with the City have been duly recorded everywhere and included lack of lease payments to the city, losses, etc. So, I don't know if he would be an ideal businessman to grow CocoWalk.
However, It is a moot point. It is not up to "us" to "appoint" who runs what business. Businessmen make investments and take risks, but no one appoints them. It is only normal that, if a businessman sees that something is not working, to cut his/her losses.
Sure, Cocowalk is a tourist trap and very kitsch but there is a market for kitsch as you can see now even in residential neighborhoods of the Grove. With this Mourad and Tutu thing and the lash back, my explanation is: the economy is slowing and people are getting a little crazy!
cocowalk has triplet siblings in tampa called centro ybor and west palm beach called city place.
i think the developers were the same.
the tampa one went bust and is now struggling.
the wpb one has fared better, but i think is struggling too.
its no surprise the grove one is struggling.
these concepts, once so fresh about 10 years ago, now dont seem to work. too artificial.
they are all going through a retrenchment that will see some rag tag local businesses move in before the economy returns to strength and national tenants come back.
its just the way it is for these developments.
Cocowalk is caca.
I think there should be a strip club in Cocowalk. Anyone agree??
Yeahhhhhh, A Strip club!
Ooopsie,A Gentlemen's Club!
We gotta support single mom's!
RichieRich
Brooklyn,NY
marcelo salup is exactly right that businesses spend thousands to open. Why would anyone criticize any business that tries to open in the Grove? They take huge risks to fill our empty spaces. And as for CocoWalk you name several chains but I still see that many are local businesses...I dont understand the criticisim!! I guess you think the spaces should be given away for free to whomever YOU see fit??
First of all, CocoWalk was the first lifestyle center in Florida, unless you call Bayside a lifestyle center. Centro Ybor in Tampa and BayWalk in St Petersburg were built with the CocoWalk footprint, but on a smaller scale. CocoWalk was built by Constructa with Yaromir Steiner at the helm. Centro Ybor was built by Steiner and Sembler. BayWalk was built by Sembler. Centro Ybor is struggling because the City of Tampa approved multitudes of liquor licenses which turned Ybor City into a teenage drunken party. People with money quit frequenting Ybor City, thus Centro Ybor is struggling. BayWalk,however, is located in downtown St Petersburg which has experienced a strong residential rebirth and BayWalk is doing quite well. CocoWalk was struggling under the previous owners as they allowed CocoWalk to sink to the same depths as Centro Ybor and the new owners are attempting to resurrect this once grand property that happens to be known worldwide. As to foreign owners, not exactly correct. The entire management staff is local, the leasing agent, Mia Stierheim was born at Mercy Hospital and her father Merrett Stierheim has been involved as Miami Dade County Administrator, Superintendent of Miami Dade Public Schools, President of the Greater Miami Visitors and Convention Bureau and President of the Women's Tennis Association which was instrumnetal in bringing the former Lipton Cup to Key Biscayne, now known as the Sony Ericsson Open, what a resource of knowledge to draw upon. The marketing director, Cynthia Bettner, grew up in and lives in the Grove. The General Manager, Rick Torres, the Operations Manager, William Rivas and the Office Manager, Flor Orellano Odio, are local and the entire staff is committed to the renaissance of Coconut Grove and with it, the entire business district including CocoWalk. Reportedly, the new owners have invested $93 million into CocoWalk, that is something everyone ought to make a note of. There are people out there who see the potential for the future of the Grove and were willing to put their money where their mouth is. With the coming of the Coconut Grove Business Improvement District, I think it is time for everyone to quit dwelling on the negatives and embrace the future together.
Thank you.
The previous poster is right on. Ybor City has seen a huge increase in liquor sales and has become pretty trashy and seedy in areas. The poster "drewaming" who said CityPlace in WPB is struggling needs to have their head examined or actually go there. The place is packed with shops and pedestrian traffic, so the statement that its "struggling" couldnt be further from the truth.
Marcelo Salup's comments are great. I too wondered, "Are these people adults?", when I read the Gripevine's post and the comments here. Both he and a poster above are correct in that there is no centralized appointed committee that picks and chooses businesses.
What ever happened to the times where this blog would encourage people to SUPPORT Grove businesses rather than bash them?
Coconut Grove Gripevine - we gripe so you can gripe. Just dont gripe about art or the bookstore!
i would not say that baywalk in st pete is doing so well. tenants like dan marinos tavern have gone out of business there. and some local restaurants opened branches there that have failed. the restaurants in it are struggling, at best.
moreover, large hordes of threatening 'urban' teens have started mini-riots there in the recent past to the point that st pete cops have been called in like swat teams to control the place. now, armed guards stand at the entrance, not exactly welcoming.
if the kids didnt flock to the movie theaters there on dates, baywalk would be kind of dead most of the time, just like cocowalk.
I don't know why you guys are putting down Grapevine for stating the truth. Cocowalk is a joke. Nothing is really thriving there. Most of the businesses are hanging on by a thread. Don't believe me? Go and ask any store owner there. Something needs to be done, Grape is just making an observation. You go to FYE and pay 20.00 for a CD you can get at Best Buy for 9.99. The sneaker store there is run by fools, the little carts sell crappy jewelry, there are no decent restaurants except maybe for BICE. There really is nothing good about Cocowalk these days. No body here has named one thing.
I guess everyone can start bitching about the new project in the West Grove after they are through bashing CocoWalk. If the merchants at CocoWalk supposedly are not doing so well, could it be that the locals are not supporting them? Look in the mirror, where do you shop, Coral Gables and Dadeland? Dan Marinos is still operating at BayWalk under a new concept, I am not so sure Dan Marino's is that good anyway. Yes there are minority issues at BayWalk, it seems they have chosen BayWalk as their podium, probably BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE GO THERE. CocoWalk has chosen to not pander to the late night partying crowd as much as possible because they are disruptive and do not give a damn about trashing other people's property. There are new changes ahead for CocoWalk, like a Muvico to replace AMC which is a majpr coup. Muvico understands that ther needs to be a venue that shows other than mainline Hollywood trash, and probably will not be showing movies that are so out of date thhety are available at Blockbuster.Hopefully all the residents of the Grove will welcome and support this change.
in response to anonymous who says nothing good about cocowalk and no body here has named one thing...gripevine listed the quesadilla place on the main page
Grapevine telling the truth - are you kidding? Haven't you been reading the Blogs - Blogger?
Grapevine was asked to visit with CocoWalk weeks ago to investigate all sides and chose not to... If one doesn't listen to both sides of the story how is one going to report a fair objective statememt.
Obviously, you are a follower and do not think for yourself!
People relax. I met with Mia at CocoWalk. All is well. Details to come. (AnnaMaria, send the pics).
what I neglected to say about Grapevine reporting something good at Cocowalk was that I thought it was ironic that he would!
99% of the posts here about CocoWalk are good. Guess you missed the fashion show, Sweet Pea's two stores being reviewed very well, the arrival of Santa, Santa with pets, the face painting family days, all the restaurant reviews, the new store reviews, the art stroll, etc. etc.
Perhaps one of the main reasons Cocowalk and much of the grove is failing is parking, and the economy problems of the last couple of years.
The new meters are not user-friendly and are a real pain in the butt. Especially when it rains. i have helped numerous tourists and Miamians with the meters-and many just don't work. Or the parkings lots- a movie , dinner and parking? Who can then shop. If the new improved theater is more expensive, forget about it. They are out of touch with the economy at cocowalk. Misner park has free parking. How do they do it? The old meters were just fine. I guess someone made a big $$ killing selling the silly meters to the Grove. And last in my opinions, the crowds are only as wild as what is accepted by the police and store owners. We are all thankful for and shop at the little stores which are not what we can find somewhere else. I am off to Little havanna for dinner-no high rises or 93K of improvements, easy free parking-maybe they can now change all of that.
Cocowalk would be more "Grove-like" if small businesses were given a break with the rent. There is nothing wrong with there being a Starbucks or Gap there. The Grove is not what it used to be, but neither is Miami all together. Greed has begun to shun people away from Miami. Business owners trying to milk people for all they're worth with mediocre food, bad customer service, rudeness, and expensive prices. The rent in the Grove is way too high. It has gotten to the point where only big business can afford to establish it's name here. Miami is not a place for small business anymore unfortunately. Cocowalk is not the problem. The only affordable restaurants in the Grove are part of Cocowalk. Maybe we should all learn from this?
The grove has become a meeting place for the bigots of America. It no longer represents free spirited people. I went to three galleries which are the main galleries of The grove. I asked is there any African American art here. They all responded no! Even the board in the Grove for the arts is all whites. Oh not al l, I was told a Cuban was on the board. Only one of the biggest bigots of America. The Grove has gone to hell in a hand basket. An African American artist that was not allow to display in the Grove is now featured in Miami beach. Imagine that! Until there is equality for all races in the Grove I feel it should do as it has been doing ...Gie out!!!!! Really let us face it. It is only for the tourist. The gallery next to the MayFlower in a den of bigots!!!!! I watched it first hand. I was in there when an African American artist walked in there and asked what she needed to do to display. They got rid of her fast and afterward I listened to what they were saying. She is not a monkey that should go back home. She is a human being that should be given the same chance everyone else is afforded. From now one I will tell everyone the name of The Grove is Bigot central. The sad thing was I looked at that ladies art. It was better then any of the flower crap that was hanging. I really think the galleries in the grave should get together and fix that problem otherwise the media will do it for them. The first thing is add some color to the Grove galleries because the Grove is surrounded by color. Lets not turn the Grove into another South Africa.
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