Overdeveloped
For all of you people who are for the Related (300 Grove Bay) project, like "Bob" who posted a comment in favor of the project, speaking for the neighborhood, with all due respect "Bob," I can throw a rock from my window at this very second and hit the very site. Can you?
And I don't care how good the architecture is, this type of zoning is meant for a downtown area, not a quiet neighborhood. And for all you people who say "progress." Raping and destroying a neighborhood is not progress. Stop and think. Look at the house next door to you. How would you feel if your neighbor sold and a developer came in and put a 300 tall massive structure next door? Seriously. Think about it.
These two and three story McMansions destroy low density neighborhoods. Look at poor Key Biscayne, it looks like a joke now. Parts of South Miami and Palmetto Bay look the same and these are only three story houses next to one story houses on zero lot lines. So just picture your house next to a 300 foot tall tower.
Think clearly now -- think like a caring, sensible human being. Try to imagine why people are against the project. Now think of why people are FOR the project and ask yourself, if money wasn't involved, if Related wasn't doing this to make millions, if not billions of dollars or if these neighborhood associations were not paid off, would these people be for this massive hunk of junk? I think not. Why doesn't Related go build some homes on the site for Habitat for Humanity if they are so great and it isn't about money? Why don't all these neighborhoods who were paid off reveal how much and why don't they donate the money to something worthwhile?
As for Grove West residents -- how dare any of you be for the project when Grand Avenue was so opposed to anything over three to five stories. How about this 310 foot tall project right next to your houses? How about destroying your whole neighborhood so Related can make money?
And I don't care how good the architecture is, this type of zoning is meant for a downtown area, not a quiet neighborhood. And for all you people who say "progress." Raping and destroying a neighborhood is not progress. Stop and think. Look at the house next door to you. How would you feel if your neighbor sold and a developer came in and put a 300 tall massive structure next door? Seriously. Think about it.
These two and three story McMansions destroy low density neighborhoods. Look at poor Key Biscayne, it looks like a joke now. Parts of South Miami and Palmetto Bay look the same and these are only three story houses next to one story houses on zero lot lines. So just picture your house next to a 300 foot tall tower.
Think clearly now -- think like a caring, sensible human being. Try to imagine why people are against the project. Now think of why people are FOR the project and ask yourself, if money wasn't involved, if Related wasn't doing this to make millions, if not billions of dollars or if these neighborhood associations were not paid off, would these people be for this massive hunk of junk? I think not. Why doesn't Related go build some homes on the site for Habitat for Humanity if they are so great and it isn't about money? Why don't all these neighborhoods who were paid off reveal how much and why don't they donate the money to something worthwhile?
As for Grove West residents -- how dare any of you be for the project when Grand Avenue was so opposed to anything over three to five stories. How about this 310 foot tall project right next to your houses? How about destroying your whole neighborhood so Related can make money?
posted by Tom Falco at 8:27 AM
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44 Comments:
Florida's population is expected to increase from 17.5 million to a projected 19.7 million, or 12.2 percent, for an average yearly increase of 366,000 people per year, or 1,000 people per day, through 2010. You cannot change that. Where do you expect all of these people to live?
The urban development boundary requires us to build up rather than out. Most of downtown is already built up. There is a movement to increase urban living (the best way to combat sprawl) which means that neighborhoods surrounding downtown will continue to experience a development surge. This is a good thing for the environment and the only way to maintain the urban development boundary.
Good for Related group for recognizing this fact and for having the smarts to capitalize on it. That is the American way. The Related group recently built 200 Habitat homes at their own expense. What have you done for your community lately?
Why don't you take the some of the proceeds that you will get from your skyrocketing property values and go help restore the everglades? Or, spend your time and money lobbying for affordable housing. You obviously have the time.
Well, we are hoping that people will find that if there is no housing, then they will go away. Why make it a self fulfilling prophacy? (If you build it they will come, so don't build it).
As for skyrocketing property values, because of the glut on the market and the glut that this will add to, property values are actually going down. Not up.
And then what next Bob? Over build the rest of the county after the Grove is maxed out? Just keep building and building and building with no consequences? ENOUGH!
Bob sounds like a total moron and paid lackey of Related.
Get real. The laws of supply and demand will continue to drive the market. Bitching about it will not change that. If you don't like it, then you should move to a small town or quiet suburb. Yes the market is in a slump now, but the long time residents of the neighborhood surrounding Mercy and all over the Grove have seen a dramatic increase in their property values and will see a slower less dramatic increase in the coming years. I for one will take advantage of the slump and invest for the long term in a number of condos while the prices are down and I will continue to embrace city life. You should do the same.
i wonder if our water problems will increase with our current rate of development?
Dealing with the problems associated with development requires smart analysis and acceptance of the undisputable facts. Not a sprinkling of pixie dust or efforts to "wish" the issue away.
Read this from today's Sun-Sentinel (our smaller neighbor to the north:
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"Already crowded, Broward projected to get 400,000 more residents by 2020
By Buddy Nevins and Robin Benedick
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Posted May 14 2007
Brace yourself…………Broward County's population is expected to grow by almost 400,000 in the next 13 years, county planners say. Although the newcomers will generate thousands of jobs, the price of their presence will be steep………… All those people will mean more development. But with little vacant land left, all that additional development will have to be denser -- and higher. Proponents say that's not a bad thing because it allows for more lifestyle choices at a lower cost……….."If you're going to have more density, it's not only healthy but appealing to a lot of us aging Baby Boomers to have a more urban lifestyle where you can walk or bike from your home to work or Starbucks and go have dinner sitting out at a sidewalk cafe," said Hal Miksch, who until recently was redevelopment manager for the city of Oakland Park."
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Coconut Grove is NOT a remote suburb. It is in the center of the city and WILL be developed. The only question is: "will local residents work with developers to make it better, or will threaten hold our breath until we turn blue (like some did with Home Depot) so we end up with something far worse that what the developer wanted to build?
The Grove Bay project is not in an urban area and is not walking distance to anything. The project belongs on Brickell or Downtown. Case closed.
NEWS FLASH!!
All of Coconut Grove IS "Downtown" .......as is the entire area north of Flagler Street up to the Design District (and possibly beyond)....and everything between Biscayne Bay and Jackson Hospital.
It's ALL DOWNTOWN and will grow even denser and more vertical very soon.
What we need to do next is elect competent Commissioner. Any nominations?
An academic from the U of M Town Planning program would be great for Distict 2.
An academic leader – freed from the irrational passions of neighborhood politics - would be interesting; someone who, unlike Sarnoff, could speak honestly without fear of losing the support of his flock of true-believing zealots.
Arva Moore Parks would be a great commissioner. She is smart and really knows and understands the issues facing Miami. I nominate her!
Arva would be a good option. Smart, passionate, (and most important) honest! May be too inclined to oppose reasonable development. But a quantum leap from the current occupant of the seat.
Go Arva!
Sounds like Bob stands to get a big bonus if Related gets to build 300 Bay Towers, just like all the other Related people who have been promised bonuses - yes all those Jorge Perez employees who prance around during Commission hearings acting like they are the center of the universe.
Arva Moore Parks seems OK, but did anyone see her blindly cheerleading for the seriously flawed Miami 21 Manny Diaz scheme? 50 experts spoke against Miami 21 at a PAB meeting but Arva would not let the facts get in the way. She pushed it right along warts and all...
"...an academic from U of M Town Program...? Just what we need another out of touch jerk from Coral Gables.
I'll take Marc Sarnoff anytime. At least we can count on Marc to attend 70 meetings and events a week and to be informed. I think we need another attorney on the commission. And there should be an IQ requirement.
Sarnoff would not pass if there were an IQ test. Can't beleive he has so many people fooled. We need another slimey attorney like we need another Home Depot. Arva Parks is a great choice. She is well educated, very informed and knows what is best for Miami. I have known her for 30 years.
Sarnoff is not well educated. He is self obsessed and is of questionable character. I wish he would stop showing up at all those
meetings. He is embarrassing our district.
How many of you support drafting Arva...or some other reasonable alternative to Sarnoff and his ratty cabal?
I would support Arva over Sarnoff any day. I would be happy to volunteer my time to help her get elected...
maybe you all should focus on encouraging the people in one of the three districts to vote in someone with half a brain. Whatever your feelings of sarnoff, he is not the problem. The problem existed before he was even elected.
What a classy lady! She is someone we all could respect and be proud to represent us.
Boy there’s sure a lot of butt-cheek clenching going on in the Sarnoff bunker this morning at the emergence of a GREAT IDEA that we don’t have to “settle” for whatever it is the Marc brings to the party. Granted, he has a very fundamental appeal. He’s AGAINST a lot of dicey ideas. So, it seems, are hundreds of bloggers are elsewhere around town. So THAT’S clearly not a qualification for political office. The truth is: political leadership requires more, MUCH more than simply opposing things. It requires a whole lot that Marc lacks. Empathy for others. Broadmindedness. Ability to forge coalitions. Knowledge of history. Ability to see the BIG picture.
Arva would be a good choice. And, I suspect, so would many others. We owe it to ourselves to look around and NOT settle for the accidental commissioner who just happened to be standing there when the Mayor’s hand-picked temporary replacement for Winton wilted under the demands of office.
Marc is NOT the considered choice of District 2. He was the fortunate beneficiary of a lot of confusion surrounding the “will Winton return?” question. The “who is Haskins?” question. The “can Rollason do it? question. And lots of other unique circumstances.
Let’s look around for alternatives. We owe it to ourselves! And Marc is NOT entitled to re-election. He has to earn it and the only way he can is to be vigorously challenged by one or more credible alternatives.
Who shall they be?
Sarnoff earning re-election? Anyone been to a commission meeting lately? Seen Sarnoff on TV? Sarnoff fights for residents every day.
If you are not sure read the two letters Sarnoff wrote Manny Diaz. See who you want representing you. Manny lives in Dist 2 and Manny was swayed by Jorge Perez's money. Sarnoff fights for quality of life issues every day.
Having an inept, fumbling doofus "fight for me" but lose every battle is not helpful no matter how well-intentioned he may be. I’d prefer to have my cause championed by a clever, effective strategist who can actually accomplish things.
It’s hard to imagine a better definition of ineptitude than the non-performance of Sarnoff. What a dysfunctional cipher! It would be better to have no commissioner at all. At least an empty chair would not alienate the rest of the City the way Sarnoff has done! District #2 is doomed for as long as this disaster sits in that chair.
But he gets facials and manicures and he leases a cool car!
Other than the Mercy re-zoning issue, likely headed to an appeal name an issue where Dist 2 and Marc Sarnoff have not come out ahead?
Have you shopped at the NEW Marc Sarnoff-inspired Coconut Grove Home Depot yet? It's there solely because Marc bobbled the legal process and failed to file a challenge in time. Great example of the difference between sputtering and posing for the cameras and COMPETENCE! You think he was at the ribbon cutting?
I saw him there last night slashing the tires of a delivery truck.
To the anti-Sarnoff person (anonymous 7:19 am and 9:58 am) you have gotten a bit stupid...
This blog has intelligent members, try to submit some facts...
Fact:
Marc bobbled the legal process and failed to file a challenge in time.
Fact:
Marc has set a new record for loosing the respect of the Mayor and the entire Commission in the shortest amount of time - quicker than any other commissioner in history.
Fact:
Marc has already lost any chance of ever forging an alliance with the Mayor or commissioners on any future issue.
Well for starters...
Pretty weak.
Sarnoff was elected by Dist 2 voters to represent Dist 2. Sorry for you and others he was not elected to push the Manny Diaz agenda. You might have seen the news reports today detailing Manny Diaz's ethics violation and reprimand? Maybe you have read about the glut of unsold condos in Miami?
Dist 2 has its own issues and Dist 2 deserves its own advocate. Other than Mercy which might be appealed, can you name something specific?
By the way, no one agrees with you that a "challenge" could have been filed on a more timely basis. Tucker Gibbs, Esq has refuted you in a letter printed in this blog. Did you happen to see the photo elsewhere on this blog showing a tractor trailer blocking traffic near Home Depot? Did you really want a 125,000 sq ft Home Depot?
What I and everyone else I know would have preferred (had Sarnoff not fumbled) is a more appropriately designed Home Depot on US-1 and 32nd Ave. and a brand new and improved Milams.
Tucker Gibbs? Now there is another really effective Coconut Grove Attorney. He and Sarnoff would make a better success of themselves doing a comedy routine at the Improv at Mayfair.
Live! Saturday Night! Sarnoff and Gibbs at the Improv!
Oh wait, there not smart enough for that either.
What I and everyone else I know would have preferred (had Sarnoff not fumbled) is a more appropriately designed Home Depot on US-1 and 32nd Ave. and a brand new and improved Milams.
Tucker Gibbs? Now there is another really effective Coconut Grove Attorney. He and Sarnoff would make a better success of themselves doing a comedy routine at the Improv at Mayfair.
Live! Saturday Night! Sarnoff and Gibbs at the Improv!
Oh wait, they are not smart enough for that either.
Sarnoff's and Gibbs track records are equally pitiful, but at least Tucker Gibbs has manners. He does not deserve to be dragged through the mud with Sarnoff. Sarnoff has made his bed. Let him lay in it alone.
You want more facts, May 18, 2007 1:58 pm:
You are very funny. I would like to see you at the Improv! Keep telling it like it is.... this blog needs some witty truth tellers!
Truth said...
It is so amusing watching the Home Depot and Diaz asslickers attempt their spin. Their message is that if Home Depot was allowed to build a 125,000 sq ft store, with 55,000 sq ft MORE than what is existing that somehow the larger store would have generated less trucks and less vehicles. They use the deceitful words "appropriately designed". (See comment 1:58 pm above.) What hogwash. That somehow the extra 55,000 sq ft would require less inventory and less shoppers and less parking and less traffic. And what is so amusing is that they actually expect us to believe their BS.
The fact we only have a 70,000 sq ft Home Depot is due to years of hard work by Marc Sarnoff, Sue McConnell and Mel Meinhardt and many other volunteers. No thanks to drunken stooge Winton (and the other commissioners who voted with Winton) who actually voted to create this quality of life disaster. Don't believe me? Drive by the new Home Depot and watch the trucks diverted to residential streets. Watch the carts and garbage blighting the neighborhood.
Next time you see one of the volunteers thank them for their successful fight keeping the Home Depot store 55,000 sq ft smaller and less destructive than it could have been.
We would not have to watch the trucks being diverted to residential streets or see the carts and garbage blighting the neighborhood if Home Depot was on US-1 as it was originally designed.
I would have prefered an additional 55,000 sq. ft. and the Max Strang design over the retrofiting of and already crappy building.
The Max Strang Design addressed the very problems that Marc Sarnoff, Sue McConnell and Mel Meinhart have created for us.
Thank you Marc Sarnoff, Sue McConnell and Mel Meinhart for screwing that up for us.
It is your fault that we must live with the trucks being diverted to residential streets.
It is your fault that we must watch the carts and garbage blighting the neighborhood.
Please do us all a favor and find another way to serve this community. We have had enough of your civic "activism."
Would it be possible for you all to gets jobs or something?
"lorn dunteman" is another delusional type who thinks adding 55,000 sq ft to a Home Depot store somehow means less inventory, fewer departments, fewer customers, fewer employees, less traffic, fewer pickup trucks, and less 18 wheeelers coming in to stck the store. Right.
Is "lorn dunteman" trying to make us believe customers and trucks would NOT drive through the residential streets IF ONLY Home Depot was permitted to build a 55,000 sq ft larger store? To 125,000 sq ft? What about vehicles entering and exiting US 1?
If you believe that...
"If you believe that..." is not an argument. It is an empty and childish taunt. If you have an argument, advance it. Otherwise, please don't clutter up the blog.
Yes, the original design required trucks to enter and exit only on US-1. The store would have been bigger but it would have had more restrictions and a much nicer Milams. Max Strangs design was much nicer than what we have to live with now.
An ugly, retrofitted, rat infested strip mall with no restrictions, inspired by the Village Rat himself, Marc Sarnoff....
Or a brand new, original, contemporary, multi-use, building designed by award winning architect Max Strang, with multiple operating restrictions...
Um...lets see...
And you let this guy be commissioner?
Do you think you may have made a mistake?
Admit it and move on.
Wake up people!!!!
125,000 sq ft vs 70,000 sq ft?
125,000 sq ft Industrial Warehouse Store vs 70,000 sq ft Industrial Warehouse Store?
Keep the 110+ very old very mature trees vs. cut down all the trees?
You decide.
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