The Grove's business patterns or lack of them
Last night I drove around in circles trying to find parking in the Grove. Business seems to be great for restaurants and bars. I know that the area is sort of dead during the day, even on weekend days. The Gap seems to do a lot of business and a few other places, but I know a lot of businesses do suffer.
Apparently that is how Grove businesses are destined to be. I guess shopping isn't as popular as food and drink and that may be where business lies -- the Grove being basically an entertainment district at night and possibly catering to locals in the day. People go to malls to shop apparently, not to CocoWalk.
I have been suggesting for a long time that many of the boarded up shops, including Borders (no pun intended) should become places that locals can use on a daily basis -- in the daytime -- like a Publix, a dry cleaners, more lunch places like Baja Fresh and Chicken Kitchen and such. If you look at Miracle Mile in Coral Gables, it is always hopping, day and night. There is something for locals and tourists and guests.
I know most of crowds in the day, on Miracle Mile, come from the local office workers, but I actually make a trip to eat lunch on many occasions because I love the restaurants there. I work from home in the Grove and I drive to the Gables for lunch and to shop. I can't find what I am looking for in the Grove. And I am sure that is the case with many people.
I am thrilled that the Grove is not overbuilt like Coral Gables seems to be now. But there is still no reason why the Grove can't draw lunch crowds in the day. Although parking problems may be a big issue. While I don't like Johnny Rockets, they have the perfect location and are always crowded. That's what is needed for all Grove businesses.
Part two tomorrow.
Apparently that is how Grove businesses are destined to be. I guess shopping isn't as popular as food and drink and that may be where business lies -- the Grove being basically an entertainment district at night and possibly catering to locals in the day. People go to malls to shop apparently, not to CocoWalk.
I have been suggesting for a long time that many of the boarded up shops, including Borders (no pun intended) should become places that locals can use on a daily basis -- in the daytime -- like a Publix, a dry cleaners, more lunch places like Baja Fresh and Chicken Kitchen and such. If you look at Miracle Mile in Coral Gables, it is always hopping, day and night. There is something for locals and tourists and guests.
I know most of crowds in the day, on Miracle Mile, come from the local office workers, but I actually make a trip to eat lunch on many occasions because I love the restaurants there. I work from home in the Grove and I drive to the Gables for lunch and to shop. I can't find what I am looking for in the Grove. And I am sure that is the case with many people.
I am thrilled that the Grove is not overbuilt like Coral Gables seems to be now. But there is still no reason why the Grove can't draw lunch crowds in the day. Although parking problems may be a big issue. While I don't like Johnny Rockets, they have the perfect location and are always crowded. That's what is needed for all Grove businesses.
Part two tomorrow.
posted by Tom Falco at 9:55 AM
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18 Comments:
parking is a big problem in the grove. it's not enough of a magnet to be worth paying to park. well, nothing is, really, to me.
still, i know a few free spots because i am willing to walk a ways.
the shopping isnt enough of a magnet either. i see the guess outlet has now closed which was the only store i ever bought anything in over there. i suppose the rents are too high for the amt of street traffic which is why borders is still empty. its too bad.
A grocery store or fresh market would be a great addition. Don't forget, there is a dry cleaners on the corner of Grand and Mathilda St. Also, I like the post office and UPS Store. If I don't get too frustrated while trying to find a parking space, then I can get a cup of coffee, pick up my laundry, ship packages and buy stamps. If fresh produce and meats were available, then I could do all of my weekly errands in the Grove.
I'm all for diversifying the retail mix and putting in more shops that would be patronized in the daytime, although I find it ironic that you think that Coral Gables is "overbuilt" yet seem dismayed the Grove doesn't get enough of a lunch crowd.
Yet it's the very "overconstruction" of downtown Coral Gables that helps draw in the customers that keep the retail businesses alive. The office workers, as you mentioned, visit the restaurants and shops during the day. There is also an increasing number of apartments under construction downtown, and those residents are among those will help cement the customer base both day and night. And many of them have the option to walk to these locations because the CBD encourages pedestrian activity, which minimizes the need to drive around and find parking.
What is everyone complaining about? Home Depot opens on May 17th!
Ironic? I don't want more buildings and people, I just think the people here already should stay in the Grove (including me) and patronize the businesses here rather than go elsewhere at lunchtime. We don't need to add more people, we just need to bring the current people out.
The only way to boost the lunch crowds would be to have more people working in the Grove. But that would require adding office buildings. Most of the existing office buildings in the Grove are too far from the village for people to be able to conveniently walk there for lunch.
Perhaps a better use of the Mayfair space would be to rent out to businesses. I heard that Crispen, Porter & Bogusky set up shop in there a few years ago.
You can diversity all you want, but without ready customers on hand, it won't do much good.
I think the success of the fresh market just goes to show that there is a market in the grove for particular types of business. I know lots of people not jut in grove but also on Brickel shop at fresh market. Even if prices are high it is a great store and fits into the theme of the grove.
I have lived in many places in the U.S, and seeing all the different types of retail out there I have a few ideas for stores I think would do great in the grove
1. R.E.I. largest outdoor retail chain in U.S. and it’s a co-op and it has controlled growth (they only build 2 stores a year maximum). The Mayfair location where the borders was would be great place. I can see the climbing wall now. The one in downtown Denver was built in a restored factory and has a sub zero room where you can try on ski gear or sleeping bags at artic temps. it also has both a dirt and concrete bike testing area and a kayak station right outside the store (its right on the river) they would fit in great and they offer outstanding benefits to their employees. We should get a rain room like they have in Seattle.
2. Ikea
Enough said
3. Coffee bean and tea leaf (because I love them) and its about time they got out of CA. I mean if you can take on Starbucks and match their revenue, you got to be good.
4. Old Spaghetti Factory. Great prices, great food, and family atmosphere. I just want a simple plate of spaghetti and meatballs once in awhile. If these restaurants in the grove want to survive they need to cater to residents first. I am not going to go out and spend 16 dollars on a meal on a regular basis. I would eat out more if I could find more stuff for like 8 dollar entrees
5.Some kind of simple breakfast place. Maybe a diner or something to draw us all into center grove on Sunday morning. If I could get a couple eggs, fruit, coffee, and a paper for like 4$ id eat out every Sunday. Maybe that café by fresh market will open soon and meet that demand
CP&B is in the Mayfair. Other businesses are there too. There really just arent that many people who live in the Grove, or close enough to walk for that matter. Oh, and that dry cleaners on Grand and Mathilda sucks. They are the most expensive dry cleaners Ive ever been to in my life and they use pressing machines that are too small and leave huge creases in shirts. Whats the point of dry cleaning if I have to iron all my shirts afterwards? I think the answer for the Grove is marketing. No one markets their business! For example, I always thought Cucina Creativa was a kitchen store and then when I went to visit, I had no idea where it was because the sign doesnt give you a good clue. One day I was determined and ended up finding that it is actually an Italian restaurant and they have a really cool bar and seating area. Never would known that! Their sign gives the feel that it is a kitchen store and there is really now way of noticing it unless you are curious about food/cooking like I am... Its a shame really, but they arent the only ones with absolutely no clue about how to market themselves. Just watch as the next 2-3 restaurants fold in the next 2-3 months...
...and Coral Bagels on 27th and US1 has great breakfast for really cheap. Check it out sometime...
blind i been there but the atmosphere of a strip mall off us one is great, ya know what i mean
make that isnt great
Good observations. The best way to get retail business to thrive is to encourage apartment and condo housing which leads to 24 hour residents.
5 stories high is plenty. Also, if the city had its act together, they would build sidewalks on the fringe areas. So simple yet so complicated for our politicians to grasp.
I think the eclectic mix of restaurants already in the Grove are better than Pine Crest, South Miami, etc, although we could lose a few chains and never miss them.
I personally, would prefer more non gimmicky, non-Disneyesque choices than what always makes up the streetscapes of everytown USA. It gets boring, really boring – when your choices are relegated to Chilis, Olive Garden, Old Spaghetti Factory (as an anon recommended above) Johnny Rockets (gag) etc. Even Borders, Starbucks and Barnes and Noble shouldn't have a place in Coconut Grove. The formula may be successful, and we frequent(ed) them for lack of something better, but it's BORING, and pure commercialism, There's no soul in it people! A real coffeehouse is what we want! You just don't know it yet, if you've never had it.
In my humble opinion, in place of Borders, Books and Books would be welcomed with open arms. There, almost every night of the week, Mitchell, the proprietor of Books and Books, organizes literary heavyhitters doing readings and discussing their latest writings. (This afternoon I saw John Kerry* and his no show wife Teresa. They wrote a book on the environmental movement. Last week Elizabeth Gilbert of Eat, Pray, Love. Next week Anderson Cooper, Dave Barry...check it out for yourself: booksandbooks.com)
Live music and readings also happen at his locations in Bal Harbour and Lincoln road. My point being that we need to start thinking out of the box! This is after all Coconut Grove. The last thing we need are more chain/franchises like Johnny Rockets or even Cheesecake Factory!
However, Dean and Deluca would be a fabulous in new tenant in the Mayfair vacancy! But then again, that's just my humble opinion.
*Seeing Senator Kerry should in no way be a reflection of my political interests, although let it be known that I would never waste 10 minutes of my time listening to Sen McCain, or anyone else remotely affiliated with this current fascist administration.
I am one of the lucky Grovites who not only lives in the Grove, but works here as well. I've also been around long enough to remember very Grove-styled shops that exist no longer, but which were unique to the area. You can't change back the clock, but you can diversify so that not everything is the same as everywhere else. If you can't get a mom-and-pop kind of bookstore, bring back a chain. Hard to believe an educated berg like the Grove has NO BOOKSTORE at all. No Bakery. No shoe repair. Coconut Grove Cleaners has been around for years and years and are an institution (sorry previoius poster if you don't like their work, the rest of us do)
If we lose Milams due to general pig headedness of other Grovites, the only market we will have is Fresh Market which is great. But Gardners, once Scotty's, sold out and has now become a prepared food lunch spot. Surely there are enough people to support another market/butcher/fish monger in this area. If you want it to be a village, you need to think about what types of busines keep a village going. Oh, and lest I forget, the new Marcanio's is amazing - it's deli is loaded and it's a welcome 'walk-to' place in the Grove and the kind of thing we need more of.
I remember when Borders was closing, and the sales girl was quite upset and said "now you won't have a bookstore in the Grove." The irony is that it was Borders that drove the other bookstores out of the Grove. (Ho Depot, anyone?) Remember that when you want your chainstore eateries to make your life more convenient.
If you like paying $2.50 for a laundered shirt, keep going to Grove Cleaners. I agree with Blind Mind. Way too pricey and they do a careless job of pressing.
I think a grocery store like TRADER JOES would be great for the B&N space in Mayfair. They have lots of fresh and prepared natural foods including their own brands and at affordable prices.
Some of the posts were great but sadly, many of you guys are missing the main issue regards to the grove's tenants. It's the landlords! You name a store that you loved that is gone and I'll name a landlord that was too greedy to keep them.
Borders did not want to leave. They had two floors and they were paying $50,000 per month in rent. That is not a typo. They wanted a rent reduction and wanted to cut back to only the ground floor. Now, there were a number of other things going on too, but Borders had an out clause in their lease if the Mayfair became too vacant or was turned into office space. They tried to leverage that into a better deal and only one floor but the Mayfair took them to court and Borders won, then left.
The fact is that many of the best stores leaving had nothing to do with the stores themselves but rather the rents are too high. That's why it is only restaurants and chain stores. Liquor pays the bills at restaurants allowing them to afford higher rents and chain stores are able to negotiate better rents and have better margins than mom and pop stores.
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