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Thursday, August 03, 2017

Their attitude is part of the problem

Got this comment from an anonymous person:  "I'm new to the area but it appears the Grove Taliban seeks to impose Sharia design standards on everyone in the Grove."

I don't think this person gets it and this is part of the problem we are having today.  I would love this person to go to Charleston or Savannah, or even Greenwich Village for god's sake, and say that to the locals. 


These entitled new people move in and remake the Grove into something they prefer. They knock down a house and a bunch of trees and then build something new and they think its ok to do that to the whole village. It's quite nervy.

How do you move to a 150 year old quaint neighborhood, and then call the residents there "the Taliban" because they want to preserve what's good about their neighborhood; the reason they moved to their neighborhood in the first place.

The "design standards" in the Grove are simple - one lot, one house. No tree decimation for new roads, no multiple houses on a single plat of land and no destruction of historic, or seemed to be historic houses. Simple. It's not about the white boxy houses, which I do personally like, but not at the cost of destroying the neighborhood and not in the hands of developers who have no love for the Grove, it's all about money with them. They can't do it in Coral Gables, so they do it here. 

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12 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perfectly said this is true and to the point of the issue in the GROVE Developer GREED and City politics.

August 03, 2017 8:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Grove, like any neighborhood in Miami - South Miami, Brickell, Golden Beach, Surf Side, Morningside, Miami Shores, etc. etc. - has been in a constant state of evolution since its inception. Talk to the long time residents in any of those neighborhoods and you will hear the same bitching and moaning that you constantly hear coming out of the Grove. People don't like change but as the City of Miami continues to grow change is inevitable nit just in the Grove but everywhere. Drive anywhere in Miami - from Little Havana to Hollywood to West Palm - construction of new buildings is happening. The old is being replaced with new and in 20 years what's new today will be replaced with something else.

You people constantly put down the "greedy developer" without thinking about who built the house/apartment that you live in - whether it was a year ago or 20 years ago - a developer built you that house ... and I guarantee someone else wasn't happy about it either. Are the developers trying to make as much money as possible on their investment ... certainly ... just like you are trying to make as much money as you can doing whatever job it is you do. Does that make you a greedy ________ (fill in the blank)? Should developers be allowed to cut down trees and circumvent the zoning and building codes? I think we all agree that they shouldn't and that the City needs to crack down and step up their enforcement but please don't be a hypocrite and think that you are any different then the new families that are moving into the Grove just because you got here first.

Long time resident.
Hank B.

August 03, 2017 9:26 AM  
Anonymous Swlip said...

^^ I endorse Hank B.'s comment. Developers are simply meeting demand. Property owners are entitled to get the best value from their investments. Those who live in condos shouldn't throw stones.

When I first moved to the Grove, 20 years ago, many old Grovites made it a point of pride to note that "we're not Coral Gables." Well, be careful what you wish for. Coral Gables is Coral Gables because it has always had a strict zoning and building code. Meanwhile, you can still drive a truck through Miami 21.

August 03, 2017 10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ignorance is the reason for such comments as you see plenty of since the Taliban actually destroyed what came before including the well publicized destruction of Buddhas of Bamiyan. So the demolition crews, zero lot builders, tree cutting landscape architects and the financiers of such shortsightedness are the brethren of the Taliban.

August 03, 2017 11:41 PM  
Anonymous swlip said...

^^ I think someone needs a hug!

August 04, 2017 9:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Labels aside, the tax payers are assuming the financial holes that the developers are leaving behind, once their projects are done and they cash their checks.

August 04, 2017 12:26 PM  
Blogger James said...

Again, I keep bringing this up and it's never acknowledged, but greed goes both ways. Developers aren't a charity. They are in business to make money. They buy a 3/1 for 900k they have to build out to make their money back. If you don't want big stuff in the grove, don't sell your house to a developer. I'm sure you could sell your 3/1 to a nice family for 250k and they would be very happy in it.

August 04, 2017 2:31 PM  
Anonymous swlip said...

Yeah, James. Let's all agree to sell our properties for less than 30% of their market value. Screw retirement. Of course, the buyers would have to be morons not to turn around and resell them for full market value. But at least we'll be blameless. Because unicorns and rainbows.

August 04, 2017 2:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually looking at the economics of it, limiting zero lot construction in Coconut Grove and requiring proper scale and compliance with Miami21 and other rules on the book will increase the price per square foot, since demand is not going to subside unless there is a negative population growth or economic shock and the land is not going to increase unless the ocean goes in permanent low tide. The little builders who have aspirations to go big time want you to believe their voodoo economics theory that erecting a monster next to you taking most of the lot is going to increase the value of your house, so enjoy the shade from two and now THREE floor McMansion next door. Ask any sane economist and the answer will be overall price per square foot must fall if zero lots continuously get added to any neighborhood such as Coconut Grove in the long term ceteris paribus.

August 04, 2017 3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I’m all for forcing people to stick to the current laws (no cutting of trees, no lot splitting, etc.) but limiting the size of house you can build will hurt property values. One of the reasons values in the grove have gone up so much is because you can build a pretty big house on a small lot. Look at homes on 5000 sq foot lots in south grove vs south gables. The homes in the grove are more expensive. That is mainly because a developer can build a much bigger house in the grove. The bigger the house you can potentially build the higher the lots value. I purchased a small 1950s house and put a lot of money into it (including adding Trees) to fully remodel it but I’ve seen my property values go up because of the development. A house on a small lot in south grove just sold for 2.85M. At that price a developer could pay 1M for one of these lots and still make a nice profit. That just increased the price of all these little houses (whether your intention is to knock it down or not).

Bottom line is that by reducing the size of house someone can build you will hurt your own property values.

August 05, 2017 8:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Case in point "a house on a small lot in south grove sold for 2.85M" let's say the house is 5,000 square feet actual living area on a 7,000 square feet lot then the price per square foot sold is $570 which is in par with sale price for smaller and older houses in South Grove. The data and the economics are saying there is no real benefit to price per square footage when big houses are built on small lots and in fact the big sacled houses may be depressing their neighbors who have chosen to live on a bigger lot to living area ratio. In the long term value of all properties will be under price pressure because of out of scale houses on small lots. Why not ask economists at one or several local universities?

August 05, 2017 3:12 PM  
Anonymous swlip said...

While everyone is focused on controlling the supply, they're ignoring the demand side. What's driving it? How much of it is foreign money? How much of that foreign money is the result of money laundering? How much of the laundered money is the result of corruption or drug trafficking (both remain major issues)?

When FinCEN required reporting of cash real estate sales in Miami-Dade of $1 million and above, the number of cash deals dropped by over 30%. That tells you a lot. FinCEN should lower the reporting requirement for cash real estate deals to $500k.

August 06, 2017 9:29 AM  

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