Is there any real merit to the Grove Bay plan?
I don't like to publish comments here that don't have a name attached, but this comment just came in on the story below and it says what I could not put into words. I love the part where he/she mentions that they are going 10 miles away to get voters. This is one of those things that raises a red flag about this. So far, no one has talked to the voters about the job, a handful of people will benefit, take their money and leave the Grove and we are left with the remains. Here is the great anonymous comment:
After months of trying to insult and marginalized any commenters as "old Grove hippies" and non-progressives," after months of their attempts to paint those who are against the project as uninformed or mistaken while changing the public story as to what's actually planned to be built, their only tactic left is to pick on some guys sign [they are picking on Glenn's sign in the photo below]??
Once it was clear to the players in this game that a majority of the Grove residents are against this plan in its current iteration, they and Sarnoff in particular gave up on trying to sell us yet another of the ever changing waterfront plan and tried to sell the idea to those outside the community giving those of us who live here a not so subtle "go f--- yourselves, if you won't do what I want I'll get votes by trying to sell the idea to people that live ten miles away."
If there was any real merit to this idea, any real plan for the local community benefit, not just for a few businesses and a couple restaraunt owner, one would think he would have embraced this chance to talk with the hundred or so people who came out in opposition to this. That's over 100 people who actually live here he had the opportunity to inform and clarify. His absence and silence speaks volumes as to his opinion of we who live in the Grove.
Instead, his shills come here and, once again, ignore the fact that so many came out and instead try to focus on one aspect of one sign and try to dismiss the opinions of all who showed up because of that homemade sign. This is the second time now that the shills have tried to create racial tensions over this.
There seem to be an inordinate amount of pro-garage/mall posting here out of nowhere. I think you need to organize a pro-project rally.
After months of trying to insult and marginalized any commenters as "old Grove hippies" and non-progressives," after months of their attempts to paint those who are against the project as uninformed or mistaken while changing the public story as to what's actually planned to be built, their only tactic left is to pick on some guys sign [they are picking on Glenn's sign in the photo below]??
Once it was clear to the players in this game that a majority of the Grove residents are against this plan in its current iteration, they and Sarnoff in particular gave up on trying to sell us yet another of the ever changing waterfront plan and tried to sell the idea to those outside the community giving those of us who live here a not so subtle "go f--- yourselves, if you won't do what I want I'll get votes by trying to sell the idea to people that live ten miles away."
If there was any real merit to this idea, any real plan for the local community benefit, not just for a few businesses and a couple restaraunt owner, one would think he would have embraced this chance to talk with the hundred or so people who came out in opposition to this. That's over 100 people who actually live here he had the opportunity to inform and clarify. His absence and silence speaks volumes as to his opinion of we who live in the Grove.
Instead, his shills come here and, once again, ignore the fact that so many came out and instead try to focus on one aspect of one sign and try to dismiss the opinions of all who showed up because of that homemade sign. This is the second time now that the shills have tried to create racial tensions over this.
There seem to be an inordinate amount of pro-garage/mall posting here out of nowhere. I think you need to organize a pro-project rally.
posted by Tom Falco at 9:21 AM
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19 Comments:
Well put.
It is my guess that it will not be Grovites who determine the fate of this project.
Sarnoff is using Taxpayers money to heavily promote this project on a daily basis. Why would our elected official oppose the views of those that elected him?
Our Government is now working AGAINST the People..not for them. With all the issues facing Sarnoff right now.Such as the Brickell Tree Cuttings and the Old Smokey/ Toxic Parks..why is he spending sooooo much time , energy, and our money, promoting a project the local residents do not want.?
Of course they are going to the entire city to promote the project. That is because the entire city will be voting on this. It would be stupid of them not to. Just as stupid as the "Stop Grove Bay" movement keeping this battle in the Grove. Talk about taking something obvious and trying to turn it into a conspiracy. I guess that is what some people have to do to get attention for themselves when the truth just isn't juicy enough. Sickening.
Stop Grove Bay better go city wide or this is a sure loser
So first we in the Grove were mistaken about the details, then we were a dying minority, then we were racists, then we were non progressives and now we're conspiracy nuts?
Once again with the character assassination and dehumanizing.
Why is every discussion around here about out-grouping, name-calling, and demagoguery?
I think the nazi discussion was an unnecessary reaction, which I fortunately did not see or think of when viewing that sign.
Tom, we all know where you stand regarding Grove Bay. But seriously, this comment is considered "great?!?" This comment is pure paranoia. This just goes to show the bias that is here on the Grapevine. Why not come up with another plan instead of singing a few peace songs and making derogatory statements. Which seemed to be the actual entirety of the meeting last night.
This comment says what I am thinking so I think it is great. Why don't you sign your name if you think you can put me down like that. And for your info, this is a blog, it IS BIASED. That's what a blog is.
Although the project is located in Coconut Grove, the vote will be taken city-wide. We are just a small piece of the voting pie. Almost no one outside our little paradise even knows about (or is paying attention to) what's being planned. It doesn't affect them in the least. Clearly the City wants Grove Bay to pass so it will use every tool at its disposal to make sure Miami voters say yes. Unlike the Convention Center controversy in Miami Beach, which has a well-funded, very strategic opposition, not much interest has been drummed up beyond the small drumbeat opposition circle.
Well said, Old Grove Hippie. (Though, pesonally, I've always thought of you as "Aging Druid") :) Good to see your activist side.
I object to being called a "shill" because I criticized Glenn Terry's sign. Bad taste is bad taste, no matter which side of the discussion you are on.
Grove-ites have an appalling tendency to accuse anyone who doesn't agree with them of having evil motives. It ends up becoming, as is the case here, a distraction from the real issues. I would certainly appreciate having better information about what is happening with the waterfront plan, but all I've seen so far is a lot of name-calling.
You people need to grow up. If it wasn't Glenn Terry's intent to compare Sarnoff to a Nazi SS man, then let him come on here and explain himself.
Swlip - the people saying they don't want the project don't have to have all the answers. Sadly they don't have to be open, honest or above name-calling. They are citizens acting freely as is their right. However, the City, through commissioners, employees, management, does have a legal duty and obligation to both provide information and act in a respectful and respectable manner - that's their job, and their oath. They are failing at both.
I agree with the above comment regarding what the City should provide its residents. However, contrary to your statement, I've seen a very comprehensive package of information. I suggest you call City Hall and ask them to email it to you.
Scotty's and Sarnoff and Susan and Sasaki all support this. It's over.
The bay ecosystem is more than fragile now. So I think this kind of project is very dangerous not only for Coconut Grove residents but for NATURE. I am of the Ralph Munroe side. We must care our environment; don't leave the money people be so greedy. I want specify I am cuban, hispanic, I don't live in the Grove but I love the Grove.
Cristina Fernandez
If the gentleman who used the lightening bolt SS claims it wasn't meant as an insult or an innuendo. If he claims ignorance and says he didn't know the same symbols are used in extreme right wing politics both historically and present day, then he is clearly not a very smart or informed individual. It's either one or the other.
Do you really want a person of that caliber representing the interests of this Grove coalition?
I'd distance myself from him in a heart beat. Any decent PR person would tell you that.
JB.
Ps Tom, you're not very fond of publishing my comments but I hope this one gets through. It's not negative, rude, nasty and it does add to the debate. I'm also not trying to incite trouble and I have a very happy life :-)
Agree with Anon. @ 4:22 p.m.
The sign has nothing to do with one side or the other. It's in poor taste. Especially due to the fact that I am almost 100% sure that Marc Sarnoff is a jew himself. But hey, according to this "great" post, us jews shouldn't feel offended by the sign, because in reality we are not upset at the sign, but just "shills." Thanks for the reality check. Wow.
Aaaaand they still have nothing but trying to make this a race issue with thier laser-like focus on an aspect of a sign at the gathering or their dehumanizing of those who attended by mocking the (admittedly cheesetastic) singing at the end.
Here is one of the main reasons I believe whole-heartedly in anonymous commenting. All these attempts at character assassination to move the focus of the real subject at hand.
Then we have characters like JB.
" this blog is nothing but speculation, innuendo, and people whining.
It's all he said, she said. Nothing of substance and no sources. This blog is nothing but gossip from people with nothing better to do with their time"
And yet he just cant tear himself away. Here he is almost half a year after making the above comment, still wasting his time, focusing with that laser-like intent on one aspect of one sign.
And yes JB, I'm sure you are well acquainted with "what any decent PR person would do".
And to swilp, I apologize for calling you a shill for completely ignoring the fact that all those people came out to protest this project, ignoring that all those people WHO LIVE IN THE GROVE and are against THE CURRENT VERSION of this projectt came in person to oppose it, ignoring that a group of people (all ages and races, languages and denominations) that has been called a minority in the community yet came out in force, and, instead, you focus on the point that, stylistically, two letter S's, the first S in Stop and the second S in Sarnoff, reminded YOU of the nazi SS symbol and therefore he is an unthinking oaf and therefore must be unfit to be involved in this matter at the level he is. If you were so offended perhaps you should have mentioned it to him then and there or discussed it with others at the event and then approached him to make him aware that people might be offended.
My bad. I have obviously misjudged your intent.
Tom, thanks for headlining my comment I considered leaving you with my name to add to it but considering the character assassination and accusations of anti-Semitism towards Mr. Terry because of two COMPLETELY NOT NEAR EACH OTHER S's on a sign and Mr Sarnoff's vengeful and violent nature (remember when the community fought him on the tearing down of the Convention Center and he wanted it blown up in a giant Hollywood-esque explosion? ) I'm not going to leave a target painted on myself so that these "concerned" commenters can further distract from the facts.
The good news in all of this is seeing the pro-project folks posting here grasping at straws and resorting to attacking the people who are opposed to the project instead of trying to promote what they think are the positive points of the project.
Lol!
Apparently I'm a Paranoid aging druid now. :)
Pretty soon I'll be an uncaring anti-Semite. ;)
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