A little of what went on last night
Glenn Terry was one of the few who showed up to the neighborhood meeting last night at the Nelsons' house. I wish I was talking about an episode of "Ozzie and Harriett," but it was about our waterfront, which who knows, maybe in this day and age, Ozzie Nelson would sell himself out, who knows . . .
At last night's meeting the same story has been told on and on, with one of the developers' attorneys present. Glenn and his friends feel that Scotty's should be left alone, fixed up and maybe changed owners, but keep the feel and footprint. I agree. You can read Glenn's great review of last night here.
Glenn feels like many when he says, "I'm glad I attended the meeting. It was hosted by friends. I needed to hear their point-of-view. Unfortunately I did not agree with it.
I think they've been hanging out with jaded politicians and developers who don't care about the Grove, too long." That says it all.
Another issue going around is gambling. Some see this 80-year-lease turning into gambling on the Grove waterfront, a la Monte Carlo. Is this getting out of hand now? With an 80-year-lease, anything can happen. Is the lease changeable? Once this is voted upon and the commissioners have their say, is it a done deal?
Nina West said this in an email: "We taxpayers cannot sue or vote to change one word over a period of 80 years. The city commission cannot change one word for 80 years after this lease is signed I do not wish to rely on our Commission to vote no and protect us. A YES VOTE BY THE COMMISSION is what we will get concerning gambling and that will be fixed until the end of the lease."
Scary thought.
One other thing that I don't know the answer to. I was told that the Garage is NOT PART OF THE VOTE. That is a done deal. IS THIS TRUE? ANYONE? ANYONE?
A VOTE AGAINST THIS PROJECT IN NOVEMBER WILL KILL IT, FOR THE TIME BEING OR FOR YEARS.
Here is the PETITION TO STOP THE PROJECT NOW. Please don't just look at it and sign it. I have to admit I just signed it, I thought I had signed it the first day, but that was not the case. If you are not sure, please look it over again.
At last night's meeting the same story has been told on and on, with one of the developers' attorneys present. Glenn and his friends feel that Scotty's should be left alone, fixed up and maybe changed owners, but keep the feel and footprint. I agree. You can read Glenn's great review of last night here.
Glenn feels like many when he says, "I'm glad I attended the meeting. It was hosted by friends. I needed to hear their point-of-view. Unfortunately I did not agree with it.
I think they've been hanging out with jaded politicians and developers who don't care about the Grove, too long." That says it all.
Another issue going around is gambling. Some see this 80-year-lease turning into gambling on the Grove waterfront, a la Monte Carlo. Is this getting out of hand now? With an 80-year-lease, anything can happen. Is the lease changeable? Once this is voted upon and the commissioners have their say, is it a done deal?
Nina West said this in an email: "We taxpayers cannot sue or vote to change one word over a period of 80 years. The city commission cannot change one word for 80 years after this lease is signed I do not wish to rely on our Commission to vote no and protect us. A YES VOTE BY THE COMMISSION is what we will get concerning gambling and that will be fixed until the end of the lease."
Scary thought.
One other thing that I don't know the answer to. I was told that the Garage is NOT PART OF THE VOTE. That is a done deal. IS THIS TRUE? ANYONE? ANYONE?
A VOTE AGAINST THIS PROJECT IN NOVEMBER WILL KILL IT, FOR THE TIME BEING OR FOR YEARS.
Here is the PETITION TO STOP THE PROJECT NOW. Please don't just look at it and sign it. I have to admit I just signed it, I thought I had signed it the first day, but that was not the case. If you are not sure, please look it over again.
posted by Tom Falco at 10:30 AM
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10 Comments:
This is the same gang that gave us the useless baseball stadium....enough said.
When Monty starts taking rent from Starbucks and Jorge Perez starts scouting the bank lot (Coconut Grove Bank) you know that this plan is almost certain to go through.
"When white-bearded men start walking down Wall Street to purchase stock...you know it's time to buy stocks"
I am a Grove resident who feels that those of you who are fighting this thing are looking at it the wrong way ...mostly because it's already going to happen whether you like it or not. At this point I think you should be more interested in "bargaining" over what type of effect this will have for the locals (i.e. water access, locals-friendly bars and restaurants, road traffic safety for walkers/bicyclists/joggers, project board accountability, and many other small issues affecting the locals).
Not to mention that once the word "casino" starts filling the air you know the big money is almost certainly going to shut up everyone who might ever be in their way. The Grove is owned by a small group of people (a cartel?) who are powerful because they have their eye on the bottom line and payoff the right people. This is the real world people. Money talks and protesters walk. This deal was made in a small home office (presumably the one located across the dog park) many months ago. It's done.
If we can't save a staple building like the Playhouse what makes you think we can stop Monty, Jorgy, and Casino money?
A petition?
Please.
At this point it just makes more sense to try to contain and guide the fire than sitting around complaining about it starting in the first place.
Ah, the last post is spoken like a true Grovite. Bend over and let yourselves be screwed. No wonder the Grove continues to degrade in front of peoples eyes.
Of curse, the biggest problem is that all of the people focused on this issue believe that this is a "Grove Issue."
It's not! It's a city-wide issue. Unless folks wake up and start reaching out to people who live in the city, but not in the Grove, then you will have lost the fight before you even got into it.
I know that there are a lot of Grove folks who think other people in the city means the people that come to clean their houses and cut their grass, but those are the people you need to reach and convince that they need to get out and vote with you.
As for the garage, yes, the garage is not part of the RFP, but without the Referendum passing, there is not much reason for a massive garage.
At the end of the day it might behoove some of you civic minded folks to actually get off your asses, quit whinning, and start actually being civic minded, starting with downloading a copy of the proposed city budget and showing up for the Commission meetings.
The reason that the 5 Dwarfs on the City Commission believe that they can screw you over time after time is because you allow them to do so by not demonstrating that you actually care about what they do with your money, or your land, or anything else that the can give away to their friends.
al crespo
PS: Some of you whinny ass**les might see if you can scrunch up enough courage to sign your name. This after all, is municipal politics that is going on, not something that requires real courage to let people know who you are when you stand up and speak your mind.
It seems the Grove has had several opportunities to vote out the politicians who have been destroying your community. Over the last 20 years I have watched the community slowly erode away as the foundations have been kicked out from under neath it. The collective group of self-appointed do-gooders have blindly been pawns as they campaigned for, gave donations too and then voted for the very politicians who have economically destroyed you and that great little community I used to call home. It seems like soon you all will be "Bay Side Phase II" the Gamblers edition (not sure how you'll get that past Tallahassee) and it's all but written in stone. Unfortunately many of us saw this coming a decade plus ago and when we warned you all and asked for your support to protect our interest most couldn't be bothered.The attack on Events, Clubs, 5am, the hasteling by the Police of the people who came at night, the narrowing of the main streets and often complete closures anytime the neighborhood might actually be busy..all designed to choke off the existing business and create room for their wealthy friends and Grand ideas. I hope you all can at least enjoy the spectacle that is to come...and get some good parking fees, for your once nice front yards in the center Grove.
Sarnoff and Nelsons were the first to criticize Johnny Winton and now they are doing the same thing! Al Crespo is right on the 5 dwarfs on a spending spree with our tax dollars and land! Village of Merrick Park the mall was leased by City of Coral Gables and is zoned public parkland. Residents fought over it and look what they got! Stand up Grovites STOP this Mess NOW!
Can someone get a copy of the resolution the commissioners voted yes, also, get a copy of the language of the balot question? these are public records.....
Winton got busted for his drinking, I am wondering what will get Sarnoff busted?
Yes we all want more parks. Many of us would also like more libraries, better schools, more police, more trees, a better economy, lower taxes, the reopening of the Playhouse, more innovative cuisine nearby, City Hall moving out of the Grove, less rezoning for more unnecessary condos and if possible Grove Independence. It is admirable that so many Grovites have taken an interest in the Grove Waterfront. It’s just disappointing that it took them so long to discover the many studies and efforts that have been in motion for the past 5 years. Removing Chart House and Scotty’s Landing and replacing it with a park is a great idea. Except that our City can hardly afford to maintain the parks, community centers, libraries, public pools and bike lanes, that we already have. The choice to replace the Grove Waterfront with a new project that will generate greater funds to the City of Miami will be included in the November election when we select the Mayor for the next four years. The public referendum offers the voters two choices. Agree to support the new Grove Waterfront Project known as “The Harbour” or leave things as they are.
"SHALL THE CITY BE AUTHORIZED TO LEASE APPROXIMATELY 7 ACRES OF WATERFRONT AND SUBMERGED LANDS IN COCONUT GROVE TO GROVE BAY INVESTMENT GROUP, LLC, PROVIDING FOR 1) A MINIMUM OF $1.4 MILLION IN GUARANTEED ANNUAL RENT AND 2) APPROXIMATELY $17.9 MILLION OF PRIVATELY FUNDED IMPROVEMENTS TO REDEVELOP AN EXISTING MARINA AND PUBLIC BAYWALK, CONSTRUCT RESTAURANTS AND, PARTIALLY FUND A PUBLIC PARKING GARAGE, FOR A 50 YEAR TERM WITH TWO 15 YEAR RENEWAL OPTIONS."
The referendum will not include a choice to demolish Scotty's Landing and Charthouse and expand the area into a park, no matter how many folks sign a well-intended petition. So your choices will be to approve the new project, increase jobs, improve quality of food served and service. Or leave things as they are, with mediocre food, mediocre service and little if any maintenance to the existing buildings and dingy bathrooms. “The Harbour” is the best Waterfront project that has been presented in the past year, through two separate RFP review processes. I am confident it is the best choice and I plan to vote for it.
Dear Anonymous,
Too scared to identify yourself? Two RFP's processes indeed. The first one was so rigged that even City Manager Johnny "The Doormat" Martinez, refused to allow it to go forward. I wouldn't consider the first RFP process something to brag about.
You create a false choice when you say either/or. If this proposal gets voted down, then the city will issue a new RFP, and sooner or later - depending on who gets elected Mayor in November, the process might actually reflect a better fit for the property and the people who care about what happens to that property.
The fact that this current proposal was the only one of two proposals submitted, and that the other proposal pulled out before the final selection Committee meeting doesn't necessarily speak well of the process, and if you're as concerned with process as you anonymous post indicates, then you should be concerned that the process works for everyone, not just the developers.
al crespo
piece of legal advice for the NO to the project, to hire an expert Attorney to file suit against the City and hopefully have a Judge rule against the Nov ballot.
If that not possible continue with the PR movement, gathering, use the media, TV ads.....
Another option to get Regalado and or Jeff Benjamin to speak against the ballot...let's get the ball rolling..I am confident the project will be defeated...
Gee Whiz, Wasn't Marc Sarnoff elected because of his opposition to and promise to keep Home Depot out of the Grove.
What else has Mr. Sarnoff promised and failed to keep? What else has he been paid off for?
Arquitectonica is not the best architectural design firm in the world, the USA, or Miami. Only recently have they learned how to build parking ramps & garages that work.(Their project on Coral Way at 34th Ave. was a disaster and had to be rebuilt. "Atlantis on Brickell" is still undriveable if you have a muffler on your car.
They have had a very good publicist, though,(who might be a relative w/ a dedicated mission), which shows the power of the press...even if you don't own one, because basically, news organizations rely mostly on press release handouts.
Neither Coconut Grove, nor the City of Miami, needs a glass enclosed 2-3 story monstrosity on the bay. If people crave Shula's Steakhouse, let them go to Miami Lakes! Is he trying to create a dynasty, a legacy for his heirs? Dude, take up Fantasy Football...your meals ain't all that great. Charthouse is not known for outstanding cuisine, but Alfred Browning Parker's building design is superb! Get a first class operator there and you need make no change.
Scotty has milked his franchise far to long. He is overpriced and under quality. Has he come to terms w/ alleged back taxes? Find a true Groveite to take the space and create a genuine Grove experience.
JRL
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