Supporting the waterfront plan
Here is the response from Michelle Niemeyer, who was chair of the Coconut Grove Waterfront Working Committee during the planning process, which was a committee of residents from all over the Grove. It later became a subcommittee of the Village Council.
Michelle is currently a member of the Coconut Grove Waterfront Plan Implementation Committee, which is an advisory committee appointed by the City Manager related to the master plan.
The only reason Michelle is responding is because she was approached by some people who had attended the Village Council meeting and they wanted answers as to why the Village Council is in favor of the project.
Michelle's response:
I strongly support the plan proposed by The Harbour for the Grove Key / Scotty's / Chart House properties. I've received emails from a small number of people complaining about "development" on the waterfront. They are complaining about improvements to an already-developed property which is a small part of the Coconut Grove Waterfront Master Plan and which was supposed to be redeveloped after the lease ended in 2012.
The Harbour's proposal meets the plan's goals and significantly improves pedestrian connections, adds green space, and includes a better baywalk and a park on the water under and around the banyan tree by Scotty's. It also keeps a casual outdoor restaurant and live music venue by the water, similar in pricing and menu to Scotty's, as is required by the master plan.
The parking garage in The Harbour's plan is also in the master plan, but is narrower than the master plan envisioned, allowing for more green space. The parking garage will be needed when the Expo Center location and acres of surface lots around it are turned into a park and Sailing Center. In my opinion, if more spaces are needed I'd rather see it taller and keep the green space than wider with no green space. That will be the Miami Parking Authority's decision.
The retail in the proposal is also part of the master plan, and should be limited to retail related to the waterfront uses. The City didn't specify that in its RFP, but The Harbour's proposal did express that intent. The Village Council's resolution adds a recommendation that the parking garage wraparound retail could serve park users (adding retail uses that would also serve cyclists, runners, walkers, and other non-boaters who use our waterfront parks).
For those who don't know the history, the master plan was created over a three-year period with a great deal of community involvement. Its purpose was to plan the long-term uses of City-owned properties from Peacock Park to Kennedy Park, taking into consideration existing leases and renewals, the need for waterfront land to be used for water dependent uses, the creation of connections to the Center Grove, and the need for improved public access to the water. Lots of competing needs were considered: boating access, passive park space, locations for active sports like cycling and running. Sasaki came up with a really great long-term plan that addressed all of those needs.
For those who are complaining, I hope they will read Sasaki's final report for the master plan and see what a great improvement it will be for our waterfront as it is implemented. Perhaps with an understanding of the bigger picture they will understand what a great design The Harbour has come up with for the small piece of the project they have agreed to build, at great expense, for our waterfront.
In the end, the lease for their proposed project will have to go to a public referendum, and I hope it gets our support.
Michelle is currently a member of the Coconut Grove Waterfront Plan Implementation Committee, which is an advisory committee appointed by the City Manager related to the master plan.
The only reason Michelle is responding is because she was approached by some people who had attended the Village Council meeting and they wanted answers as to why the Village Council is in favor of the project.
Michelle's response:
The Harbour's proposal meets the plan's goals and significantly improves pedestrian connections, adds green space, and includes a better baywalk and a park on the water under and around the banyan tree by Scotty's. It also keeps a casual outdoor restaurant and live music venue by the water, similar in pricing and menu to Scotty's, as is required by the master plan.
The parking garage in The Harbour's plan is also in the master plan, but is narrower than the master plan envisioned, allowing for more green space. The parking garage will be needed when the Expo Center location and acres of surface lots around it are turned into a park and Sailing Center. In my opinion, if more spaces are needed I'd rather see it taller and keep the green space than wider with no green space. That will be the Miami Parking Authority's decision.
The retail in the proposal is also part of the master plan, and should be limited to retail related to the waterfront uses. The City didn't specify that in its RFP, but The Harbour's proposal did express that intent. The Village Council's resolution adds a recommendation that the parking garage wraparound retail could serve park users (adding retail uses that would also serve cyclists, runners, walkers, and other non-boaters who use our waterfront parks).
For those who don't know the history, the master plan was created over a three-year period with a great deal of community involvement. Its purpose was to plan the long-term uses of City-owned properties from Peacock Park to Kennedy Park, taking into consideration existing leases and renewals, the need for waterfront land to be used for water dependent uses, the creation of connections to the Center Grove, and the need for improved public access to the water. Lots of competing needs were considered: boating access, passive park space, locations for active sports like cycling and running. Sasaki came up with a really great long-term plan that addressed all of those needs.
For those who are complaining, I hope they will read Sasaki's final report for the master plan and see what a great improvement it will be for our waterfront as it is implemented. Perhaps with an understanding of the bigger picture they will understand what a great design The Harbour has come up with for the small piece of the project they have agreed to build, at great expense, for our waterfront.
In the end, the lease for their proposed project will have to go to a public referendum, and I hope it gets our support.
posted by Tom Falco at 6:00 AM
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23 Comments:
Michelle and all:
There are people complaining because the demographic of tax paying residents in Coconut Grove has changed since the meeting and master plan was decided. Many younger new families with children have decided to call the Grove home. None of these tax payers had a say as to what the future of our home village will be. What is being thrown at us is a reality that we will still have to travel to Coral Gables, Key Biscayne, South Miami or Pinecrest with our children for activities and sports. Since it seems as though the people on the committee and currently in City Hall either never had children, only have dogs, or their children are older and they have forgotten what it's like to have children once again there is clearly no provisions for the tax paying residents to utilize the waterfront we moved here for. There is a clear movement in the Grove and no one is listening. We all don't have boats and dogs and we clearly don't want to continue to hear about the people that do! Due to the situation most of us feel as though we had bought homes in locations that care and cater to all of their residents and not only to the small boating dog owner demographic.
Can't see why this plan wouldn't be an improvement from what is there now. Seems like the same people who are always moaning about the Grove dying are the first ones to complain about something new coming to the Grove. Hope this project begins construction soon!
@Anonymous#1
I am a young parent such as yourself and I get what you are saying. I would argue that if they fix up Peacock park so it is clean, safe, and with more to do for kids of a wider demographic, then we younger parents would have a park to take our kids to.
As of now though, I see tons of homeless, drug addicts and even used condoms laying around the ground in that park. I hope this master plan includes provisions to sort that park out. Then all can be happy. I would also like to see more pocket parks where there are vacant lots now throughout the Grove.
First of all, I would like to thank Michelle for her thoughtful comments, and I have to admit I strongly agree with them. This will be a huge improvement for the area, and I think the project as proposed maximizes the use and enjoyment of the space for residents.
I must also say that I agree with the first comment, but I fail to see the connection to this proposal. Certainly, I agree that too much park space along the bay is wastefully used. That giant dog park is ridiculous overkill, let alone how mismanaged and disguisting it is. Further, dogs don't care about a bay view, but for some reason, a dog park got one of the best, prime chunks of bayfront real estate - a ludicrous use of public land. I think the best solution to that problem involves properly maintaining and using Peacock park, which is already set up well for youth sports. It needs to be slightly modified for more and better use, but that can be done cheaply, with just a little effort. Its' a separate issue, but it should be addressed.
I am please to hear Michelle's input on this. Personally, I view her comments one step positive moving forward to the next phase in the History of Coconut Grove. I am confident the community at large will endorse the new plan. Having grown up in the San Francisco Bay Area, I am excited to see a Mini Golden Gate Park in our Coconut Grove where people can gather to play sports, listen to music, exercise, do some painting, enjoy nature and ultimately enjoy some fine food, it is all great for the body and the mind!
The plan looks very nice on paper, but it's going to take years to implement and will cause a lot of disruption in the meantime. For example, I have yet to understand why the CGSC should be demolished and relocated to the other side of the mooring field. This is going to cause construction costs, demolition costs, and logistical headaches for the club members, for what purpose?
I think they are looking to consolidate the "sailing" stuff to one area. It's going to be next to the Sailing Center. Look, are there going to be traffic problems during construction? Probably. But sometimes it takes a little pain to grow. Look at S. Miami Ave.
But why consolidate the "sailing stuff" into one location? I've been a member of the CGSC for years, and I have yet to hear anyone say that things would really be great if only we shared a parking lot with the US Sailing Center. Who did we offend?
That Guy: The connection is that the people want activities aka "Community Center" . There could be a fitness center, activities for seniors and for children and anyone in between. Playing fields to host soccer, baseball and other sport tournaments and leagues. thus brining in revenue. In case The City is the only group that hasn't noticed but Parents spend lots of money on kids and kids activities. But instead we are getting a glorified Bayside with Chain stores and restaurants. It could all be coordinated to make everyone happy but that never happens in City of Miami. I am glad to read I am not the only one that thinks Kennedy Dog park is a ridiculous use of waterfront space and is beyond disgusting!
Maybe you shouldn't have moved to a place on the off chance you could change the communities developmental plans into something that fit your specific needs three years after the fact. Not to mention I have not noticed the demographic shift you mention.
How old are these plans, btw? The presentation dates say 2007. Have they been updated since then? You know, we did have a real estate crash in the interim. Have any studies been done regarding current demand for retail and restaurant space on the waterfront? What if we build this thing and not enough people show up to support it? What then?
Keep out the parking garage! Visitors can WALK and PARK at the city garage, at the Sonesta garage, at the CocoWalk garage, at the Mayfair garage, etc. This is a lovely little village, not a suburban mall. For some reason, Miamians must have parking garages everywhere. Why?
Quite interesting comments. I too am a mom, and many many new families coming to the Grove. And as a parent like many, we all Grove parents I've spoken too, all see ourselves schlepping our kids to other community centers, such as south Miami, Key biscayne, and the Gables. Where this money and time could be spent in the Grove. And yes Dog park, terrible waste of real estate. Only happens in Miami! And a glorified bayfront, well would bring more of the bad restaurant and chains, and cheap stands like they have at cocowalk to sustain in. That's what will happen once the project goes through. We need a real consistent north to south bike path, that bring foot and bike people in the grove. We can't now bike safely with kids. Especially by Monties and coral reef. And parking...it's a huge issue, whether you are a visitor or not, there is no parking. I just found out about sonesta parking after living here for almost ten years!! I always thought it was private parking!!! And green space well used, a place for older and younger people can go, kids or no kids. That caters not only to visitors. As I and other residents hardly ever go to the grove. As the stores and few restaurants aren't great. Only maybe restaurants are 2-3 ok. We need to bring residents and others from outside back interested by making the Grove a destination. Not another shopping mall. A hanging out place to enjoy a view of the water, people visit Miami for that but not the Grove anymore, as it lost its view. It's joie de vivre! From Grove mom.
Thank you Grove Mom from another Grove Mom well said! As swilp mentioned the plans are already old and the crash has changed the demographic. Roscoe Parrish you have not noticed the demographic changes because as Grove Mom above states no one with kids including our family hangs out anywhere in the Grove as there is no where for activities, food or shops that we would want to visit that are family oriented. Miami operates , they have meetings, more meetings, discussions, studies , more studies and then the plans and then more meeting and more studies and ten years later when they try to do anything most of those people are gone and the situation has changed so drastically that the original plan doesn't make sense anymore. Not to mention the millions of dollars already wasted on an outdated plan for a waterfront plan and mall that does not have something for everyone and caters to very few. This will be another City of Miami mistake. From another Grove Mom!
And the plan is from July 2007, that's 6 years ago. If you look at the link to the plan the date is on the plan. Of course the demographic has changed in six years!
Would kids appreciate a ocean view more than dogs? Maybe, but probably not much... The view is for the owners/parents... Are pet owners less entitled to a view than parents? Especially since we're forced into certain areas with our dogs? I want to see more and larger dog parks in the area. Better maintained would be nice too.
Will this block or clear Water Views?
I usually agree with Michelle, but one thing I keep reiterating is that the Grove has 5 miles adjacent to the bay, and you cannot see the water, except for a few feet at Seminole ramp, if you're walking, biking by the streets.
Even in the parks, Peacock, Kennedy, and others you have to get inside and peak through mangroves to see some water. They have opened up Kennedy a bit, finally..
That should be a priority.
Carlos Iglesia
Dogs poop everywhere and most don't bother to clean up therefore kids keep it nicer and yes Parents and kids should have priority over dogs for a water view. Since you don't have kids there are kids of all ages at parks!
Yes, 1:05 pm, kids would enjoy the view more... because if they enjoy it at all, that would be more. They have the capacity to do so. Your dog does not. Your dog is not a kid, and it is not comparable to one. Also, pick up your dog's shit. I'm sick of having a pile of dog shit as a park.
My apologies to grape for the profanity, but these disgusting dog owners who pile feces in the park are far more offensive than that word. Truly, I want to rub their noses in it.
Right on anon 4:35PM love it!
Can't wait until the massive parking garage goes up just so I can hear Carlos whining about how we have 5 miles of shoreline yet only have a "few feet" of ocean view.
But in all seriousness... The parking garage / retail space building is going to be HUGE. Al Crespo wrote an excellent story about this.
For some of you moms who are looking for things to do in the Grove for kids, you should check out Armbrister Park. A new group took over the running of the sports programs there last year and they are incorporating more of the Grove and Gables communities into the kids sports programs. The football and cheerleading is just starting now and there are lots of new families from around the Grove and the Gables bringing their kids there. The park has been cleaned up and most of the bad element has left. After football season, there are plans for track and possibly soccer or lacrosse. The City has major renovation plans including new artificial turf field, new grandstands, and upgrades to the buildings. Its great to see something developing in the Grove for kid's sports.
Thank you Michelle
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