Our own guests are avoiding us
An interesting fact came up at a recent Village Council meeting. Felice Dubin, Council Member, and co-chair of the Merchant's Group, who is organizing "Sail the Grove," a concept to promote the Grove's merchants to the thousands of sailors who pass through during a six month sailing season.
Felice claims that the sailors, who stay in Grove hotels and who compete in the water off our shores daily, actually leave the Grove to head to South Beach, Mary Brickell Village and other places to hang out and have fun. So they are here all day sailing and then when it comes time to have fun, they don't even think of the Grove, they head to other areas.
The Great Grove Amazing Race is coming, which is one event on December 28, that will entail a large group from the Orange Bowl Youth Regatta scattered all over the Center Grove, playing a version of The Amazing Race (like the tv show). We'll give more details about this over the weekend.
One lady who spoke at the Village Council, said that her group, called "And the Women Gather" meets monthly at the Ritz Carlton. After their meeting, they actually avoid the Center Grove and head north to Brickell or South Beach. She says that their perception is that the Grove is over, it's no fun anymore, it's not like the old days, so they bypass it and go to other areas to eat, drink and have fun.
This is the problem. This is the perception that needs to be changed.
Felice claims that the sailors, who stay in Grove hotels and who compete in the water off our shores daily, actually leave the Grove to head to South Beach, Mary Brickell Village and other places to hang out and have fun. So they are here all day sailing and then when it comes time to have fun, they don't even think of the Grove, they head to other areas.
The Great Grove Amazing Race is coming, which is one event on December 28, that will entail a large group from the Orange Bowl Youth Regatta scattered all over the Center Grove, playing a version of The Amazing Race (like the tv show). We'll give more details about this over the weekend.
One lady who spoke at the Village Council, said that her group, called "And the Women Gather" meets monthly at the Ritz Carlton. After their meeting, they actually avoid the Center Grove and head north to Brickell or South Beach. She says that their perception is that the Grove is over, it's no fun anymore, it's not like the old days, so they bypass it and go to other areas to eat, drink and have fun.
This is the problem. This is the perception that needs to be changed.
posted by Tom Falco at 1:00 PM
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31 Comments:
I agree with this assessment. While this has not been my top reason for supporting an abolishment of the SD-2 3/5am exception ordinance, it is definitely a key issue we are facing. It is exactly the same as the perception problem we are facing with college students -- that this isn't a place to come and have fun. Students are dying to spend on the weekends and if we don't want their money, I'm sure they won't think twice about pouring it into S. Miami.
Try to explain that to Sarny and the gang.
It looks like these guest are looking for the, "South Beach/Brickell" scene and people aren't interested in the easy going Grove atmosphere.
Big money does end up in those areas. I know when I want to turn it up a notch I go to the beach.
There is an extremely easy simple way to obtain the necessary magnet/type of enterprise to attract the money spending crowd; sailors, families and namely singles back into the Grove so that every person holding a liquor and restaurant license would be guaranteed an easy 25% increase, but closer to 75/125% revenue increase with a lot going to the other businesses, including Victoria's Secret. Would the businesses in the Grove be willing to pay me a percentage of this increased business? And would the Grape spread the word? Oh, for all of you folks engaged in endless negative remarks----if you folks are correct that a few old fuddy duddies, Mark, etc are behind the demise of the Grove, well, these folks are going to stop at nothing to stop this act! But I don't believe anyone is behind anything, so lets turn this magnet loose.
Yesterday I had a client remark on the state of the Grove. She attributed the 'decline', not to the 5am closure but time-lined it to the creation and mismanagement of the BID.
She said the 5am closure should go but it has little to do with the real problem and referred to it as 'spackle on a cracked foundation.' She said if the Grove were a house she'd hire new contractors.
I really don't know anything about the BID. But her comments were so matter of fact I was taken aback and didn't know how to respond.
Thoughts??? Anyone???
I'd also blame the dynamics of the rental market in and around downtown.
Young, dynamic "creative" types are priced out of an area that seem to cater itself towards a "flashy" or "tourist" (and at times "adolescent") culture rather than a "creative" culture.
Orange Bowl and other out-of-town sailors go to South Beach because all the national marketing and PR tells them South Beach is where to go. Even Burn Notice makes the Carlito's Way scenes look like they take place in South Beach. I blame it on the Greater Miami Convention and Visitors Bureau. They collect A LOT of money in tourist taxes from all Miami-Dade County hotels, including the ones in the Grove, and the vast majority of their marketing efforts clearly favor South Beach. If they wanted to run ads showing an artsy/cool spin on Coconut Grove they could, but they rarely do.
It's impossible to put a positive spin on the "perception" that the grove is no fun. It's true because of all the closed clubs and restaurants. How's that hope and change working out for small business owners?
CLL
King Mango Strut is a great vehicle
to promote your business and the "FUN" place Coconut Grove is, and always will be. Please use your positive energy and let's work together to get through these trying times.
Peace!
There isn't a person against the same operating hours as the rest of the city of Miami that isn't keenly aware of the devastation that this ordinance has caused the business community.
The problem is that it's a price they're willing to pay.
Jobie,
...and as far as the the grove businesses paying anymore money to inept people to increase business,,,, I've got one word for you... BID
The Grove is miss understood. What is missed are the positive things we have. We are in an ideal situation to host street events and yet we have very few. Is it ownership issues? My ball my game or my way or the highway.
There is no implicit "moral" obligation to stay in the Grove. Actually, they are already spending some money in Hotels. The parking situation in the Grove continues to be awful. I inadvertently went into the Garage where the gym used to be, north of Mayfair, and got hit by a $9 fee. Wow. Many stores are closed, making the area look dumped on, and the few restaurants that are OK are just not enough to hold anyone's interest.
I don't think that there is any "they" as in "they should do this or they should do that", but rather a long string of individually bad decisions.
Bottom line, Lincoln Road, for me, is so much more fun.
Perception is reality. Coconut Grove served Miami for years as a safe-haven while the other areas developed because they had the space to develop. South Beach is a sprawling 24 block bohemoth and Downtown is, well, Downtown. It's got the people and the "in" vibe. The best the Grove can hope for now is to be what it is: a quiet bedroom community that will get safer with time and hope to maintain it's charm which has nothing to do with it's commercial interests.
I went out to sandbar last weekend with a bunch of old friends and we were talking about how much the grove has changed since we were in college. It's just gotten boring and redundent. People like to go to new places and there's hasn't been anything fresh in the grove in a while. They need to open a brand new bar - something like yardhouse or brickell irish pub....people are really attracted to that type of place.
adoseofreality
Re anon 6:51,,,
What opperator in their right mind would set up shop in this sorry state of affairs?
The investors of places that are purveyors of alcohol simply won't consider opening up in an area that is at a competative disadvantage than the rest of the city, that's a fact.
So what we're left with are the Chili's, TGIF's and Dennys of the world. The places that dish out mass produced culinary monotony.
This should please the few old, sour, washed up burnouts of the Grove who had their hayday and now wish to deprive others the very same opportunity.
I live in the north grove and find myself just going to Brickell every weekend for dinner/drinks. Its just as close to where we live and there's always new things popping up. Sad to hear that center grove area is really going downhill. I think once the movie theatre opens back up people will start coming back. That's something Brickell does not have...yet.
Internal bickering goes nowhere.
Just support the local establishments.
remember "Think globally shop locally"?
We have code 33133, grove bucks use it!
While it may not necessarily be the CVB's intention to focus on South Beach over the Grove, they are simply focusing on what they assume people want. South Beach is an easy sell with international renown.
The thing is that with proper marketing, people would know to come to Coconut Grove. My husband Santiago, a realtor, often entertains out of town guests. Most often, people are thoroughly charmed by the Grove and put off by South Beach. When not entertaining clients, Santiago is generally engaging of foreigners because he is naturally inquisitive and experiential when traveling abroad and so he loves to reciprocate in the homeland.
Last night is a good example. While at Windisch Hunt Gallery visiting with Anna Maria, 3 Swedes and an America sailboat captain happened into the Gallery and we engaged in conversation. The 3 native Swedes were all professional actors who, in between gigs like to sail, and were here with the American Captain on their way to the Bahamas. Their sailboat was over at Bayside.
They had spent the requisite time in South Beach but declared it to be overbearingly touristy, and wanted to check out the Design District and Wynwood, but were wondering how to get there by boat, because they assumed that this being Miami, they could navigate along the bay and get off at different points of interest...YOU WOULD THINK!
Santiago ended up taking them to the Bookstore then suggested how they could anchor off the barrier islands and come ashore on their dinghy. They absolutely loved the idea. He then took them up to the Sonesta to point them the anchorage and mooring fields, after which he invited them to the Sailing Club for a drink, and then drove them back to their boat at Bayside.
They absolutely loved the Grove, were totally into the Sailing Club, Windisch Hunt Gallery and the whole friendly, easygoing dynamic of Coconut Grove. That is what the Grove needs to market, at an international level. It is time to think beyond the Billboard as to how this could be done. The New Yorker (magazine) comes to mind.
So the location on the WATER is attractive to tourists -- less focus on Center Grove and more focus on what's REALLY special here -- the laid-back non-touristy atmosphere and the proximity to the water................we need to use the LOCATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This anon. comment above is golden:
-Young, dynamic "creative" types are priced out of an area that seem to cater itself towards a "flashy" or "tourist" (and at times "adolescent") culture rather than a "creative" culture.-
Some people say that Miami doesn't have crowds seeking a unique, creative vibe. I don't think that's true at all.
I think the Grove definitely chose to go milquetoast and touristy to attract country-club types. It seems like this started happening years ago.
The Grove should probably have stopped calling themselves hip and bohemian a long time ago if they weren't willing to deliver on it.
Some people call the Grove a Coral Gables wannabe and that may be, but if so they're not doing a very good job of it.
It's long-past time to develop a new personality and no amount of yakking about the "good old days" are going to bring them back.
I went to lunch at 11:30 am on Tuesday at a restaurant in Mary Brickell and I had a very difficult time finding a parking space. Needless to say that the place was really lively. PF Chang's was crowed!!!
Code 33 is a joke! Give me 1/4 of the money spend on advertising the Grove and I'll give you the best campaign you ever saw! Marketing is the key, we have a)people who do not leave in the Grove involved and b)people unfortunately have old fashioned ideas. Take the new Grove Logo, it looks like a Rooms to Go ad!
Anon 5:37, Dear dim witted, I was referring to individual initiative and not institutional BID's. David does a great job, but individuals with brains run business enterprises and carry the day, bring home the pay----go back to sleep.
French restaurants and college bars a bohemia do not make. Also, as another commentator noted above, the Grove does have a rather country-clubby feel at times.
I'll never forget the first question our city commissioner asked me when walking his dogs: "Do you rent or do you own?" You can tell lots about a place from the first questions people ask you.
Also, why hasn't there been a larger public engagement in connecting the existing businesses district all the way down grand avenue. This town still looks like it is segregated! Get the Coconut Grove Theatre back, reopen the Ace Theatre, clean up historic Charles Avenue and the graveyard for tourists, and make the Grove an affordable haven for skilled labor, artisans, and craftspersons in the city of Miami.
TO ANON 1:00PM. THE PRECEPTION HAS BECOME THE REALTY ! THERE AIN,T S#&T HERE !
On the first post here let the UM students come here - are you saying they just want to spend their money between 3 and 5? - if so that is ridiculous. Landlords must make their rents more competitive and maybe some new businesses will coome in and others will expand. Focusing on sailors - hogwash -Sailors go to bed early and get up early - that isn't going to help our nightlife.
Anon 7:50;
I'm not saying that they will only spend money between 3 and 5 am. That is ridiculous. What I am saying is that very few students want to go out at 10 or 11 (which is usually when most leave their houses) and only be able to go out for 3 hours (last call is at 2 with a 3am closing time). It just isn't very much time. They would much rather head to S. Miami where they can go out for 5 hours instead. I hear people talking on campus all the time about their weekend plans and I've said this multiple times -- no one is talking about going to the Grove anymore like they did when I first came to school in 2007.
Happy Holidays all,
-Stephen Murray
Coconut Grove Village Council
We have owned in the grove for 6 years, but only come over from the west coast about once a month... It's not just for students... you need as reason for all kinds of cusdtomer niches to want to visit. We walked down every street this past Monday sand there just isn't much left... Yes, you need marketing, but you have to have something to market... Plus, the whole place looks dirty... I kinow I don't have the right to speak, but we represent one of the niches of customers that should be attracted. Have a great year.
re: "Plus, the whole place looks dirty... "
I've lived in the Grove for years, and I've always felt a nagging visual perception that the very dark brickwork sidewalks create a dark mood for our streets. Just a thought in passing...
Jobie,
For someone who constantly complains about the mean spirited people who write on these blogs, you spew a lot of your own venom at those same people. Very rarely do you have a comment on any subject on these blogs that doesn't mention it. You go after people just as viciously as they go after you big guy. Two wrongs don't make a right my friend. Come on , you're better than that guy. We are all trying to make the Grove the best it can be, and just because people don't share your opinion doesn't mean that they are wrong...don't sink to their level by retorting.
Doyle Simmons
Doyle Simmons, Thank you and it's not only you, my wife really gets after me for sinking to their level. It's true, I dislike these cowardly bullies to the core as they hide behind their anon's, so I'll follow your and my wife's advise and ignore them. Thank you again.
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