Killing the Grove softly with their "visions"
Cita's which was "the vision" of a select few of how a restaurant should be run in the Grove did not work. While the food is being blamed, the food was not the issue. The "less drink, more food vision" may have been the issue. The picking on Grove establishments non-stop, setting Code Enforcement and Zoning on Grove establishments has not helped, the 3 am bar closings have not helped. The Parking Authority extortion has not helped either. And having police scare off patrons in certain select establishments as punishment for people speaking out (a la Germany 1938) has hurt business very much.
None of this goes on in the rest of Miami. But it may soon happen. All of Miami may catch up to the Grove if a new resolution is allowed to pass. The changes at City Hall have not been good in the past month. The City Commission is about to hurt the whole City, big time.
The Miami City Commission is pushing resolution asking Governor Charlie Crist and the Florida Legislature to support some things that sound harmless like red light cameras and tax credits for small businesses and even a going green initiative. But if you read the list of things the City supports, one of the things they support doing is:
"AMEND - 893.138 entitled "Local administrative action to abate drug-related, prostitution-related, or stolen-property-related public nuisances and criminal street gang activity." to include acts of violence including murder, rape, assault and battery. This would allow the City to use the Nuisance Abatement Board to close establishments (like nightclubs) where there have been more than two incidents of violence."
Basically, they are asking that one or two person's "views" of things govern whether a bar or restaurant can remain open for business. It is completely consistent with everything else being done these days to KILL THE GROVE AND NOW THE CITY.
By adding "assault and battery" to the list, that means that if a bar were to have two fights which could include a friend punching another friend or a wife slapping her husband, the "Nuisance Abatement Board" which is a five-member City board, where each Commissioner appoints one person, could shut the business down. Since the Commissioners are appointing the board, we know where the agenda lies.
Of course we know that there are people in office just waiting for a braw to happen. They can easily pick and choose who stays open and who closes. If a husband and wife leave their house arguing, have dinner in a local establishment, the wive throws water in the husband's face and the cops are called, this is strike one against the establishment. Sort of a pre-existing fight which exacerbates and affects the innocent bar/restaurant, without liquor even being involved!
We suggest people contact the Governor now (Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com) and explain to him how the Grove and the City cannot be run by one or two people with "visions" and that in this economy we need to encourage businesses to thrive, not shut them down and punish them because one or two people don't like living in a City and prefer to turn the whole place into Venice, Florida (this photo shows how they want it here).
YOU MAY NOT LIFT THE PHOTOS & TEXT. IT'S COPYRIGHTED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. YOU CAN HOWEVER SHARE A STORY ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY USING THE LINKS HERE.
For linking to this one story, just click on the time it was posted & just this story will open for sharing - only through social media. Not copying and pasting.
60 Comments:
I just moved out of the Grove and city of miami. I am a successful 30something professional, and looking to open up a bar and restaurant as a second business. Broward County was a much more attractive option.
I used to love the grove, but it has ceased to be what it once was. Brikell is still too pretentious for me, and South Miami too average and suburban (nothing about it seems like south florida - it could be in middle america really), and the grove has been stolen by a bunch of snobs, who want to create some sanitized, homogenized walled in community, that makes the gables seem less stuffy.
It makes me sad to see what is happening in the grove, but apparenlty not enough people care to put an end to it. What a pity, the grove was once a great place...
Wow, and I thought it couldn't get any worse.
Wow. Are appointed officials going to have the power to close your businesses if other people have a dispute while visiting your business? Talking about a police state!
Amen!!!
This is an obvious attempt to take advantage of all the termoil and confusion down at city hall. Our commissioner is moving legislation along at light speed, it's unpresedenteded. Everyone in the town knows all too well how long it takes ANYTHING to become law.
Apparently, if it's something near and dear to Marc's heart, it hits the fast tract.
People should be outraged!!!
Also because they do not advertise the restaurants, in this hard economic times you have to market yourself more than ever, market your restaurant, your specials, etc, if you do not the guy that does will get all the business
Havanna Grove was my favorite place to eat lunch not just in the grove but the entire city.
Very, very sad.
when is their last day?
Just drove by Havana Grove. It's shut tight. All black. Thank you Sarnoff and all his followers. You have me crying hysterically. :(
But at least the Grove is going to have fiberglass Peacocks and 800,000 visitors to fix the grove's problem! What a joke !!
Then you probably don't know what is going on. We should have coffee some time with all the restaurant owners and you'll see we are heading in that direction.
I think it's noteworthy to mention that Citas and Havanna Grove were two restaurants that our commissioner Mark Sarnoff touted as a prime example of what his vision for the grove was/is.
"Less alcohol and more food" is his new montra.
Citas and Havanna Grove didn't fail because the food wasn't good.
The food was consistantly exceptional.
Citas and Havanna Grove didn't go out of business because the service was bad. It was always outstanding.
Citas and Havanna Grove didn't fail because the places were dumps. They were very pleasant to the eye, especially Citas.
You'll hear from camp Sarnoff that Citas "changed their chef and the food got bad". Not true, I ate there at least a dozen times and it was ALWAYS good, the last time I ate there was one week prior to their closure.
Citas and Havanna Grove closed for one reason only... NO TRAFFIC.
If good businesses with good concepts and good opperators can't make it here, what does that say about the "VISION"?
Hey, speaking of Vision - I remember a place called Visions in the grove back when it was fun. Ironic huh.
People used to party it up there, Flavour, Oxygen, etc. Too bad there's no room in coconut grove for bars. - retaurants only is what the man wants... that or out of business signs. Look which one he's getting.
Weclome to coconut grove, the only area in miami where it is in fact illegal to open a bar - that is just a bar.
Cita's closed because of the food. Look at George's and Greenstreet they are doing a great. They are giving the people what they want and people will come. The next place to close is Chiago steak house and there sandwick shop not because of any laws it is just bad and if the ivey does not make some real changes there life in the grove will be short. Has nothing to due with miami laws.
Re; Disgusted..
You really wanna get disgusted?
Just let a few more businesses fail in the downtown Grove business district.
All you old cranky farts will see your property values plummit and then and only then you'll see the light.
Wake up people, how long will it take for those of you who supported sarnoff's vision to admit it was a mistake?
THE GROVE IS QUICKLY DYING, not softly.
LOVED Havana Grove...Will miss it enormously. However, I have been there for breakfast, lunch and the ‘i'm drunk and need a big sandwich’ late night meals and I never saw the place totally packed. Blame everything you want, but I saw this is as a basic neighborhood joint that could have been locally supported better.
On a personal note, my grandparents moved here from post war Poland. I grew up hearing stories about true oppression, tyranny and aggression with the systematic torture and murder of civilians under Nazi rule. Any comparisons to that era and the Grove are asinine, uniformed and downright pitiful. Please don't trivialize the most barbaric crimes ever perpetrated against an entire people by another for your personal goals.
I agree with BD. I sense restaurant owners or investment groups are conducting poor research prior to opening an eatery in an over-saturated market.
What I'd love to see set up in Coconut Grove are independently owned shops catering first and foremost to the 18,000 residents of the Grove. Will that happen? I doubt it.
Papa Sarnoff thinks it's great for businesses North of Bird Rd, or a couple miles South to be able to close at 5. Not in Center Grove. Completely fair and logic. Drivers can drive back drunk from South Beach or Brickel or anywhere else to the Grove. After over one hundred years of Late Night Grove History. Brilliant. Logic. Flannigans's is doing great.
Re: BD
What does BD stand for?
Big dummy?
How did I know some jerk from marc's circle was going to mention Georges and Greenstreet?
George Eric is doing well but one busy restaurant does not make for a busy grove.
And the next time you bump into the owner of Greenstreet ask him how his bar business is doing.
I heard he's at %50 of what he used to do.
BD, you're so knowlegeable about business here in the Grove, why don't you put an "I" in between your fake initials and go pound sand.
Anon 4:59pm
I'm going to open up a geriatric store that sells walkers, Depends, false teeth, clappers, first alerts, wheelchairs etc.
I've done my research and I think I've got a winner.
We had an opportunity to have a world class operator like George Eric to open an upscale bar down the street on the corner of Commodore and Grand.
Instead he's going to South Miami where they actually WANT bars to open up there.
Marc and a handfull of "activist" residents are pushing out even the most sucessful businesses.
Why would a guy as talented as George want to have to deal with the likes of Czarnoff?
Great job Marc!
Too bad for Havana Grove! Loved that place! I would even order delivery all the time! No more Cuban food in the Grove! I guess its back to Sergio's!
Calvin said...
Wait a minute Calvin, you got drunk in the Grove? Does Papa Sarnoff know about this?
Btw, Just because a person is of Jewish decent doesn't give one the higher moral athority to object to comparisons to 1938 Germany.
I too had relatives in Treblinka, and while there certainly is no comparison as to what they went through compared to what's happening to Cocoanut Grove, I think my Great uncle would be proud that I am willing to confront the powers that be, even if it leads to nowhere.
Holy Moly! I just came back from the bank and there were people all along Main Highway and Commodore Plaza with yellow stars on their shirts. I saw an officer beat an old woman and then shoot her in the head right in front of a small child!!!!
THAT is 1938 Germany. It was inappropriate for the tea baggers and inappropriate for you Grape. And it's Chanukah no less.
Rather than acknowledge that what you posted might have been over the line, melodramatic or offensive Grape you challenged a reader to a cup of coffee with local business owners.
Grape knows what its about. Its like 1938 out there get your heads out of the sand!
Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone. Was just trying to make the point that bad things start with lack of freedom of speech. Many restaurant owners are punished for speaking out.
Rabbi Jacob Neusner said:
"Ask about your neighbors, then ask about the house"
Some of you putzs should should have taken a good look at the neighborhood before you moved in.
Stop your dreadful bellyaching, it's pathetic.
ANON 5:57..Actually, I am not Jewish. My grandparents fought with the Polish resistance. And while they would approve of questioning authority, they would not have appreciated the Nazi atrocities being compared to a parking ticket or some other nonsense so a small person can make a big point ...
Ed, I'm sorry to see you go.
I loved both of your restaurants and patronized them on a regular basis. It's sad that good restaurants are having a hard time making it here in the Grove.
I promise that I'll continue to fight the good fight.
I wish you and your wonderful family nothing but the best.
John El-Masry
So Regalado fans what do you think now? I know for sure Joe Sanchez would not have asjed Crist for this. Grape you supported Regalado would you support him now with all this new knowledge?
YET ANOTHER BUSINESS TO CLOSE. WHEN WILL THE LANDLORDS REALIZE IF THEY DONT WORK WITH THE TENENTS ON THEIR RENTS THEIR IS GOING TO BE NO ONE LEFT HERE. I KNOW SO MANY BUSINESSES MONTHS AND MONTHS BEHIND ON RENTS AND THE LANDLORDS WONT BUDGE ON THE RENT. THEY WILL BE LEFT WITH EMPTY STORES AND NO ONE WHO WANTS THEM. REALLY SAD. THE MORE EMPTY STORES THE LESS PEOPLE.
As business owner, I can tell you that everything is getting worst and worst and worst every single day. The level of business is lower than June or September. No tourists, no locals ...I promise you all that more and more businesses will be close in the next few weeks. The 5am is, of course, not the only reason. The locals attitude and complains are another one! Please support your businesses! The bid attitude, marketing, strategy and preferance with few places is another one. Too much hypocrisis around here!!!!
I m so impress by the "bd" comments???? Probably "bid" ! Wake up big David. You re the only One happy with 2 places doing great !!!! I m sure george's is really good, after 15 years in business in the grove....and almost screw the new Bouchon tenants:) about greenstreet, really not sure ! You and your crew are not the right guys to promote the grove.
I remember when Borders left because the rent was too high. I'd say that seemed to be when things started going downhill but I think when Cheesecake Factory and Chili's became iconic to CocoWalk a big part of the Grove spirit died.
I also see a big a difference between Somi and the Grove. In SoMi you will find three French places all in the same shopping strip but they are all very different from one another. One if a fantastic bakery and it's affordable. In the Grove we have three French restaurants and they all seem to have similar styles and prices.
Just an observation.
In Coconut Grove you can't pay the rent with "More Food and Less Drink." The rents are too overpriced. Restaurants need the margins of liquor to survive.
Maybe it is just my imagination but it seems to me that the rate at which businesses open and close in the grove is greater than any other area in South Florida. That is not a good selling point to potential new businesses.
The grove does not have the traffic to justify $70+ per square foot rent. And, until the grove runs out of people willing to sign leases at those rates, the rents are not going to come down.
Chicago's will be next...When you have to charge a cover charge to listen to cheesy garage bands the handwriting is on the wall....What happened ....when it re-opened it was heading in the right direction...It is very strange there lately....
The grove is going down one by one if we dont do anything about it now. There will be no grove!
What is the identity of Coconut Grove? Is it just Center Grove? Isd it Scotty's Landing, The Chart House, Monty's? Is it the Sailing Club? Is it Cocowalk?
Let the Muvico come back, the Playhouse be re-born. Then see.
But in the meantime, a great business will succeed. If there are too many restaurants, the good ones survive. If tourists and locals don't patronize the stores, then they don't have a good product.
Smiling, friendly, official ambassadors would do a lot to sort out the Grove for those who are not locals. And personally I'm not sure I've met the right person to consolidate all areas of the Grove into one great experience.
The black boxes are no help -- too isolationist -- tall lifeguard chairs visible to the public would be fun and a magnet for those seeking information.
It's important to think about ways to solve the problems, not make them worse.
Sucks about Havana Grove my family loved to go there. If they relocate hopefully in a better environment for them let us know Grape. The people there were super nice, food was great and reasonable.
Sad as it is, I feel safer in South Miami. I always walked home when I lived near Sunset Place. I'd never do that here.
Lower the rent prices. Less food. Less liquor. More fun shops. Seems like all the Grove has are overpriced restaurants and hair salons.
The Grove does indeed need more liquor and something to attract the crowds. I remember not so long ago that it was nearly impossible to drive through the Grove on a Friday or Saturday night because there were so many people out and about. Now? Dead. We need more live entertainment, music, and beer to bring in the younger crowds. Hopefully the new movie theater will attract the crowds once more.
If all you people who say you went to Havana Grove actually did, it would still be open. And Calvin says he likes to go there late at night, it hasn't been open at night for a very long time. It is just like the block parties, everyone was disappointed they were cancelled, but they never went.
Everyone must stay calm, we will get out of this mess. Sunday night I had my typical dinner at PF Changs in Brickell. It was really Quiet. Saturday night at Cheesecake factory, they to where 6% down from last year. This time of the year is Always a very quiet time for all restaurants because of the Holiday buying season. Orange Bowl Regatta coming into the Grove on the 26 Dec will bring a huge group of junior sailors and their what ever it takes sailing parents. Time to come up with some new ideas for the Grove, instead of always banging away at the old ones that didnot work
As much as I do not care for Sarnoff, I have to agree with him and commenter "BD" above about Cita's food. When it first opened, the food was terrific. I was excited about the place and even wrote about it after a few visits. Then their chef left and at first I didnt think it was a big deal but the next 4-6 times I dined there, I learned that it was a big deal. The food was bland, over/undercooked, and portions seemed to shrink while prices stayed high (it started as a higher priced restaurant which, if you know the Grove at all, is very risky). Once people are turned off, thats it. I stopped going altogether, choosing to dine at Jaguar (great food, great prices) or George's (good food, ok prices) instead. It has nothing to do with liquor. I drank plenty of wine each time I was there. College kids cant afford to eat at a place like Cita's either, so liquor doesnt affect them either since they wouldnt go to begin with.
Im surprised to hear all the favorable comments for Havana Grove. It was a Cuban cafe, really not that different than anywhere else. Sure, the neighborhood is more diverse with a place like that here but I really dont see a huge Cuban population in the Grove to support a place like that. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something? I thought it was more of a lunch spot and there really isnt much lunch business to be had in the Grove during the week because we lack office space (well, space that is leased anyways) and miss out on that lunch crowd.
Bottom line is that you can point to 3am vs 5am all you want but these restaurants failed because they were pushing a mediocre product at best. The 3am vs 5am has no bearing on me. I really couldnt care less either way. Sure, things should be fair and equal with the rest of the city but I think the reasons the Grove is failing have a lot more to do with overhead (high rents), lack of quality product, and lack of promotion. Look at the Design District right now. That area is on fire and its mainly because of great restaurants opening up and pulling the consumers in, none of which stay open past 1am.
Those waiting for Muvico or the Playhouse to open to “fix” the Grove are crazy. Not long ago I spoke to one of the crew doing work on the theater and he told me it would not be open until next summer. The playhouse, I assume will be a year or two. Can you imagine what the Grove will look like in 6 to 8 months if nothing is done?
Yeah, listen Anonymous blaming the City for all of the Groves' woes is stupid, and purposely misleading.
For instance, George moved his new place to South Miami because the landlord of the building wouldn't give him a break on the rent when he was going to sink big bucks for repairs for 5 months. The landlord blew that deal, not Marc or the City.
Secondly, Georges, and yes, Grennstreets are doing well....better than a ton of places in the Gables and S. Miami. So quit the BS. The Groves problems stem from crap retail, and lousy marketing.
Get a grip!
If you're waiting for the 5am law to save your butt then keep waiting. You can thank the loss of the 5am law on Cocowalk and places like Chili Peppers, and Visions that had busloads of Hialeahesque and Liberty Citites visiting our cool little village and causing problems. Fights and weapons were a constant problem as were drugs and overdoses. Ask any Cop or Fire Rescue and they will tell you many calls they got from Visions every weekend in its heyday.
I can tell just by your BS that you don't live in the Grove or even visit it and a customer...my bet is you used to make money here loading UM kids on booze until 5 am and now you don't and your pissed. Unfortunately you're also wrong as to why those laws were changed.
I'll take your so called Police state over you're BS anyday. At least they don't lie!!
Anon 3:10...
"you can thank the loss of the 5am to cocowalk.... had busloads of Hialeahesqe and Liberty citites visiting our cool little village and causing problems"
Wow, thank you for exposing the REAL reason for this change of law.
Don't you mean Latins and black people?
You are as racist and elitest as your buddy Marc Sarnoff. I'll at least give you credit.. you came right out and said it. As opposed to Marc who at this time of year goes around to the West Grove and hands out turkeys to the colored folk and thinks he's helping their cause.
How bout some brick and morter Marc? How bout actually doing something meaningful to those natives down in the hood.
...I didn't think so.
Anon, people like you are a cancer.
It's really sad that in this day and age of multicultural advancement that there are still individuals who choose to hate, segragate and humiliate.
Happy holidays.
anon 3:10pm
People like you are disgusting!
Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but Georges told me to my face that his goal is to sell liquor until 5 am. Period. In the Grove he cannot do that.
There are other reasons, too, which I can't go into here.
Hey here is a new slogan for that BID billboard.
COCONUT GRAVE
always quiet... really quiet.
or how about this as a holiday greeting:
Coconut Grove.
not a creature is stirring, not even a mouse.
Hey all you mice that voted for Pied Piper Regalado - YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Anon 3:10 has to be someone that workd in Sarnoff's office. Has to be. You all know who it is as well.
Only he could actually say some of the things he obviously let slip in his posting.
What you people don't realize is that many residents share this vision. We prefer Venice to South Beach. If people want to party all night let them drive the road to South Beach.
I welcome the changes.
And thank you for endorsing Regalado because we always knew he shared our vision.
Anon 3:10....I may not like what you have to say, but I understand it. And I think you're right.
This isn't about race or color...its about CLASS. I for one don't want those gangbangers hanging around the Grove until 3, 5 or anytime.
As far as the 5am...who cares? If 3Am isn't cool enough then they can go to S.Beach.
And for all of you bitching and moaning about "poor little 5am...boo hoo" grow up. If there was a decent place that brought in the crowds then they would stay until 3 am and them move on. What none of you ever did that? You never got up at closing time and went somewhere opened up until later?
You little bitching babies need to start speaking the truth...no matter how much it hurts.
I welcome the changes as well.
Never seen the grove so peaceful.
Thank you commissioner Sarnoff!
Rip Van Winkle.
RE: anon 1:14Pm
Anon, I can see why you would empathise with anon 3:10Pm...
You're one in the same.
It's people like you that should stay out of the Grove. You feel superior to certain other "classes".
Just because you can afford to pay the property taxes here in the Grove doesn't give you the right to denigrate people of a lower socioeconomimic status.
Boo hoo to you and your ilk.
Btw, I'm speaking the truth and it feels pretty good.
Happy Holidays
Anon 2:37pm, I'm confused...is Anon 1:14 right or is Anon 3:10 right? I get confused with all the Anons?
BTW, what they said is still true, and you know it. Ahhhh! The truth is liberating isn't it....Or am I the same as the other Anons? Aren't you an Anon too! I knew it! Stay out of the Grove you denigrater!
to your "ilk". Who speaks like that? Wait, wait, you must be the late great Conservative Commentator William F. Buckley.
What are you toting "the businessman's right to free enterprise", well its here and alive. It just closes at 3am, and if you have a lousy business model it won't make it to 3am, not to mention 5.
If the business model won't make it at 5 am. Why are you all against 5 am? Could it be that you know the Grove will be crawling with people and you selfishly want your peace and quiet? And that it will work?
anon 1:14, 3:10, 3:36, 3:45...
( all one person, it's painfully obvious )
Sakes alive! I really must have hit a nerve.
No need to try and educate them Grape. This is the type of person who feels a sense of entitlement.
They don't care about how their selfish agenda is effecting how hundreds of thousands of people experience the grove.
I've got a great idea... why don't we just hire anon 1:14Pm et.al.... to be the gate keeper for the downtown business district.
All they would need from anyone wishing to enter and patronize our village is;
-Bank statements and/or deeds to homes over $500K.
-genealogical confirmation on ethnicity... we wouldn't want any Hialeahesque or heaven forbid Liberty Citites visiting our little village.
-promissory note stating that they'll only vomit,urinate and deficate on doorsteps outside of Virginia St.
-and lastly, pledge your undying allegiance to the imperial, infalible Marc Safnoff.
Whuddaya say, when can you start?
Post a Comment
<< Home