Big push to change bar closing time
Both Mayoral Candidates, Commissioner Joe Sanchez and Commissioner Tomás Regalado, came out this morning to speak with the Coconut Grove Merchants Group.
One major issue was talked about extensively was the 5 am bar closing time. Both candidates are adamantly in favor of bringing it back, from 3 am, and both regret that it ever changed in the first place. They expressed this at the meeting before a full room of people and they told me this separately before and after (I had coffee with both candidates, one before the meeting and one after the meeting, just by chance, and they are both very sincere about this).
They understand that the Grove is dying because of the closing time change from 3 am to 5 am, and while many laugh at the thought of 120 minutes making a difference, it does, for so many reasons, mostly perception. Commissioner Sanchez said, "The Grove is suffering," and he readily admits to making a mistake on the previous vote. He wants public input, but he did get an earful at the Merchants Meeting.
Regalado felt the same way. They both know that the rest of Miami has a late closing time, including 7 am in some areas, which Regalado was quick to remind me after the meeting. At the meeting many bar owners and merchants spoke up in favor of the change. Most of the room was for it, two people in the room were against it.
Felice Dubin, Village Council member, owner of the Bookstore and one of the co-chairs of the Merchants Group said we all needed to get the bar closing time changed as soon as possible, even if we have to all beg the City Commission and District Commissioner Marc Sarnoff who was behind the time change. She insisted that he would admit to the mistake, and could be talked into changing the time, which made the whole room laugh in a mocking fashion.
Talking about Sarnoff, Felice said, "He's ruining Coconut Grove. Maybe he can be humble." With that, everyone rolled their eyes and the meeting ended.
We ran a poll for a few days. The results had been consistent -- about 95% are for the 5 am closings and 5% are against it.
posted by Tom Falco at 3:00 PM
YOU MAY NOT LIFT THE PHOTOS & TEXT. IT'S COPYRIGHTED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. YOU CAN HOWEVER SHARE A STORY ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY USING THE LINKS HERE.
For linking to this one story, just click on the time it was posted & just this story will open for sharing - only through social media. Not copying and pasting.
53 Comments:
Thanks Grape - and to reiterate what I said in the last post:
Commissioner Sarnoff: There is no shame in changing something back that isn't working. No one will judge you for doing what is right and admitting that a law you passed was wrong, we appreciate your pragmatism and respect for public opinion.
-Stephen Murray
Tom, I didn't notice the poll when it was up before. Maybe other people didn't either and will vote now.
Boy O Boy! The sh#@ has hit the fan. I can see it now... Mark and his posse' are busy as beavers despirately making phone calls, sending emails and canvassing the neighborhood trying to drum up support for their miserably failed "vision"of what they want the Grove to be. What's it going to take for Sarnoff to admit that he f#%@ed up? Let's put it this way... Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will hold passover at his palace before that happens.
Let's all keep the momentum going, until the overwhelming majority's voice is heard loud and clear all over City Hall, and this unpopular, detrimental, absurd law is expeditiously reversed. Carlos
Do you people really think that by increasing the bar closing to 5am that this is going to help the economy in the Grove. Sure it will help the bars and restaurants, but they are not the ones failing. What do the apparel, shoe, jewlery, the bookstore etc merchants get out of this? Do they really think these consumers are going to come back during the day and purchase something in their establishment, by 5am they won't even remember where they are let alone come back to spend money other than to buy drinks again. I hope the merchants who are for this are ready to be sanitation workers because they will be cleaning all sorts of trash, vomit, blood, and any other vile fluids from in front of their doors. How long will they put up with that? LOL
Great article Grape, keep the momentum.
Bring the nightlife back. yes to 5 am in the Grove.
Anonymous 4:38 pm, I could ask the same of the overpriced lame billboard that is 10 times the amount it should be.
Again for those who are fighting 5 am. It is about perception. Bring back 5 am and you will have people here at 9 pm, who may shop at the stores at 10 pm and then go home.
Perception. If you don't get it by now, you never will.
ANON 4:38 PM, I totally agree with you, how sad that we have to depend on alcohol for profit which equals drunk driving, trash, craziness, etc.......
Nice graphics, Grape.
Bringing back the 5am closing is fine. But is that what the real problem is? Do we honestly think that allowing two more hours of drinking from 3am to 5am will solve our problem. What about all the stores that are shuttered that have nothing to do with selling alcohol? Mary Brickell and Sunset are also dying too. This has more to do with a poor ecomony and lack of draws in the community than alchohol sales. 5am or no 5am---doesn't make a difference. If I recall correctly, many of the merchants who are upset now, we're the same ones pushing it back when it was passed. Talk about short term memories. By the way, my bathroom sink just clogged, my car got a flat, and my high heel just snapped off---damn you Sarnoff! It's all your fault.
Re: ANON 4:38PM
I'm glad you ended your ridiculous comment with LOL.. because it's laughable. ANON asks, "Do you really think that increasing the bar closing til 5AM will help the grove economy"? I absolutely do!!!
I'm not sure if you've been to the Grove lately but it's desolate. ALL businesses are failing, INCLUDING BARS & RESTAURANTS. Let me guess... you subscribe to the Sarnoff economic stimulus plan which is to choke off all business for the Bars & Restaurants until they all fail and then replace them with Gucci, Prada, Channel and Dolce & Gabanna stores so he can buy some more of gaudy belt buckles. A.W.
Anon 5:13, have you been to South Miami or Mary Brickell on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night? They are booming, full of hip 20 and 30-something Grovites who used to walk to our restaurants and bars and nightclubs and now drive elsewhere to go out!
"Mary Brickell and Sunset are dying too'???? Are you referring to the Mary Brikell and Sunset in Detroit?? Lady you need to get out a little more. Those two places are kicking our asses all over the place. It ain't even close, and guess what ...It's not just the Bars & Restaurants, It's the retail stores as well. What do they have that we don't... Surprise! 13 Restaurants and Bars between them... and yes, if you can't find a cobbler in the Grove, by all means thank Sarnoff. What retail store in their right mind would set up shop under these current conditions?
To the person who thinks South Miami is dead, please read this. It was the top story in the Herald last week, color pictures and everything on the front page: http://www.miamiherald.com/1460/story/1252136.html
Allowing 1 or 2 bars, that specialize in selling drinks to drunks, sell beer until 5:00 am only fosters more drunk drivers.
Do people really think merchants will sell more shoes or more clothes at 1:00 pm because 1-2 bars get to sell drinks to drunks after 3:00 am? Great real. The country is in a recession.
WAY TO GO MICHELLE, THE GROVE MERCHANTS AND RESTAURANTS APPRECIATE YOUR STICKING YOUR NECK OUT AND SUGGESTING THIS RESOLUTION!
I and other merchants who live here will vote for you to keep your voice in the Village Council even if there is a movement by the the Central Grove Mafia to get people not to vote for you. They must be wigging our with all this support.
ANON: 5:39
I meant to say 13 Bars & restaurants THAT STAY OPEN TIL 5:00AM !!!!!
We all know who is against this. Why don't the bars and restaurants who know just refuse to serve the center grove mafia at all times of day. Since they want to destroy their businesses at night why serve them in the day?
Grape, could you please limit the number of anonymous comments Ron Nelson gets to make.
Thanks!
It's clear that the comments against this return to rational thinking are Glenn Beck style propaganda. There's nothing to support you crazy theory that allowing bars to stay open till 5am will cause the downfall of society.
I'm trying to understand. If those that don't like the 5 am people are home and in bed why do they care what others are doing at 5 am?
Whatever happened to your No to Anonymous said..postings?
Let you "voice" he heard.
Too many Anonymous posters here.
BTW I am in favor of serving until 5am
ANON 5:49
I concur, well done Michelle. I'd like to also acknowlege Felice Dubbert as well. It takes a lot of balls to take on the class bully.
Please dont worry about reprecussions, there's a hell of a lot of people out there like the two of you.
Keep it going.
Jeff, your name link goes to nowhere, so you are anonymous, too.
Just who is the center grove mafia? I'd love to be in the know.
Grape:
The movement has to be at the next District 2 Commissioner election show how you feel about what has been done in the grove by voting Sarnoff OUT. He is always preaching use your votes, spend your dollars elsewhere if you don't like something, be kind to your neighbors, Blah , blah, blah. Vote him out that's the only answer at this point. There soon will be many other secrets to come out and I know Grape will get the scoop on them for all the Grove to read. Then the Grove will see what other BS he is pulling by playing games with peoples lives & livelihoods and investments.
Lets really hope by keeping the bars open two hours it will totally change the economy of Coconut Grove? This will fill 18 empty restaurants? Come on, just read the Newspapers and watch the News on TV. Come on Wake Up! And instead of complaining about boozing it up and getting fat on all the beers, it will not help. You watch......
No one is saying keeping the bars open 2 extra hours is the answer to the financial crisis. But the Grove deserves to be competitive with the other areas that are allowed to stay open later. The domino effect may work, only time will tell. It's not 1 person's decision to make changes for everyone. This is not CUBA.
When would the 5am bar closing return if it is approved? Let's hope for a speedy change. Heaven sent for businesses and job seekers. All businesses will benefit, foot traffic will increase, new construction will come, stores can keep extended hours, with coordination for parking improvement, it will be a boost for everyone.
Letting a handfull of people drink after 3:00 am is not the cure for a national recession.
How in the hell can you vote? It isn't clear.
I'm doing a write-in vote now for opening Grove bars 25 hours a day. By jamming in the extra time we'll one up South Beach and Save our Village.
It seems to me that many people are using the time change (and Sarnoff) as a scapegoat for something that is a much bigger issue - a recession.
Mary Brickell and South Miami are doing better, but they have had copious restaurant closings as well, not to mention retail, which is suffering everywhere. I don't know who says that retail in Mary Brickell is booming... have you been there?? they have tons of empty space as well. And there are restaurants that are on the verge of closing, too (Andu & Grimpa just to name a couple).
BTW, I am for the 5 am closings, but please be realistic the miracle you think it will bring.
The person who said Sunset and Mary Brickell are dying needs an 800cc dose of reality. I was at Segafreddo Brickell and the Irish Pub last night and both were PACKED. South Miami is booming right now.
There are 2 industries that are safe in a recession - beauty and alcohol. Booze on.
Ana and other naysayers - No one is saying that this is a cure for all ills. Obviously, everyone knows there's more than one problem. However, right now, we are operating in a recession, and at a competitive disadvantage with the rest of the city. We can't pass a resolution ending the recission, but we can even out the competitive balance.
Please tell me you can see that.
Well said, that guy. For those who don't like night LIFE, not necessarilly booze, then move up North or South. In Brickell, South Beach and the Grove, poeple ALWAYS go out and party. That's what people with a LIFE do, without uncle Sarnoffs telling us, when to go to bed. As his employers, we should tell Sarnoff when he should go to bed.
http://www.youtube.com/user/franzenz#play/uploads/43/jVV5eFzs408
The above is a "YOUTUBE" of Commissioner Sarnoff's position on the 5:00 AM closing.
If you are a witness to a vehicle accident, you immediately react by attending to those involved. You come to the rescue because you want to help and because this is what you would like to expect if you needed help. Now Coconut Grove needs rescuing. The recent law passed for 3 AM closing of bars is not the only problem that we have. But it is contributing to the financial pain our Village has to deal with during these tough economic times. We need our Commissioners to realize we have an emergency and require them to come to our rescue during this 9/11 situation! We can not afford to wait till after the November elections. Chairman Joe Sanchez has the authority and responsibility to include a motion to return the 5 AM closing to Coconut Grove. Commissioner Regalado will second the motion. Sarnoff needs to support his constituents and agree to vote in favor of this as well. If not, it is critical that just one more Commissioner agrees to come to the Grove’s rescue. If Sanchez puts forth this motion then perhaps he will even earn a few Grovite votes and we can put in the past some of his mistakes in support of Mercy Hospital, Home Depot and the Marlins Stadium Deal.
Anon 4:38 you have to be kidding? You talk about the 5 am closing time like it is going to turn into Bouron Street. We need to get people reattached to the grove... so when they think of shopping, dining, or going out the first thought is the grove.
Before the law was changed, I remember seeing the actual crime & arrests statistics in the Grove during the wee hours. Clearly there was a spike in incidents requiring some kind of law enforcement action during very late hours.
My question is...if the bars' revert to 5 am closing, is the City of Miami Police Dept in a position to offer additional resources to man the streets and surrounding neighborhoods?
Calling this to a vote now is an option, and the commissioner that did so, would win a lot of votes.
Do you hear that politicians?
Maria - I noticed a distinct spike after the 3 am rule was put into affect.
Now from 3-6 the streets are run by dangerous houligans lurking in shadows, tagging, vandalising and otherwise causing trouble. Having good honest people in the streets during some of those hours would stop those crimes.
ps. the same cop that goes to Flanny's at 5am could simply do a few laps down each street, right then at 5 and ensure there's no trouble.
Are you kidding? you're willing to forgive Sanchez for this!
You are a sell-out.
(Anon said 2:10 PM)
"If Sanchez puts forth this motion then perhaps he will even earn a few Grovite votes and we can put in the past some of his mistakes in support of Mercy Hospital, Home Depot and the Marlins Stadium Deal".
Len Scinto:
Again...this is an old argument and nothing is really changing and it was brought up in regards to the police and crime before the bars were changed to close at 3. The police said that criminals hang out in parking lots between 3 and 5 am to prey on the drunks leaving the bars at that late hour. Many of these are habitual criminals that always have the same MO. so we should close bars earlier to stop cirme...I asked...If you know who the cirminals are, where they are, what they are doing, and when...then how much "police work" does it take to make some arrests?
Thanks for the info. I live close to Flanny's and for some reason they seem to not only coexist nicely with the surrounding neighbors, even in the wee hours, but thrive. The place is always packed. It would be wonderful to have the same success for the merchants and neighbors in the Village. I do think that Flannys does an exceptional job in treating their patrons with exceptional customer service. I go there at least once a week & am always greeted with a smile, my favorite booth & a charming server that remembers my drink. Who doesn't like that?
Tell me if I have this right?Sarnoff is responsible for the 3:am closing. He is also responsible for having police at the entrance or corridors of the Grove to basically deter partyers from coming into the Grove. This has created a hardship for merchants who are now closing their doors. He has used code enforcement to lean on merchants hoping they close their doors. Why? So he can build his own Coconut Grove in the likeness of Bal Harbour. Well Mr. Sarnoff we will never be Bal Harbour, we will never grow up. We are what we've always been and what we will be once again. Pick another district for your vision and let us get back to what we are known for...fun. Yours truly, Peter Pan
I hear a lot of complaints from "outsiders" of the Grove. Most of the complaints are "The Grove is all 'what have you done lately for me?'"
Case in point, the comment on forgiving Sanchez for his past voting record to now make a political move.
Let us not forget who were the TWO Commissioners who VOTED AGAINST THE 3 AM CLOSING.
Commissioner Tomas Regalado
Commissioner Michelle Spence-Jones
The funny part is we're all arguing about this as if ALL the bars in the Grove used to be open till 5 a.m. There were really only a few places that stayed open till that hour.
Most of the bars were only ever open until 3 a.m.
I just think that there were better ways of dealing with problematic businesses. Not all of the 5 a.m. places were troublemakers, but they all got hurt in the process. On top of that, even the places that were only open until 3 got hurt because now the late night crowd just doesn't come here. It is all about perception.
I am just glad we're finally having some dialogue about the issue.
Yes, we all know there has been a recession. I don't think bringing back a few 5 a.m. bars wil "fix" everything overnight. But, perhaps it will change public perception somewhat.
ANON 6:24PM Peter Pan:
Could't have said it any better myself. The Grove is for the young and the young at heart, always has been. Commissioner Sarnoff has been walking around the Grove for the last couple of years hoping that his catch phrase "it's time for the Grove to grow up" would catch on. Well Sir, I for one will never grow up. I like to have fun and party and I don't even get drunk or do drugs. Who the heck are you to tell me to grow up? I say we rename the village Neverland and never grow old.
Changing the time bars can serve drinks from 3:00 am to 5:00 am only benefits one bar. Every bar, nightclub and restaurant that wants to serve drinks after 3:00 am needs a Special Exception. Those are not easy to get.
Do people really think retailers sell dresses, shoes and jewelry from 2:00 am to 5:00 am? 3:00 am to 5:00 am is when drunks prowl the streets, not shoppers.
CocoWalk fully supports Commissioner Sarnoff's decision for 3 AM bar closing.
I also support Cocowalk not being allowed to have bars open til 5AM.
Not because I'm against the 5AM but rather I'm against any property owner or landlord who allows the dregs of society to rule the roost. I live within 1/4 mile of Cocowalk and they were abhorent neighbors who did a poor job at regulating their property. We have laws on the books that should be enforced. I don't think any responsible establishment should be punished for the lack of supervision of the Cocowalk property, plain and simple.
Why do people blame Sanchez for voting alongside with something Sarnoff wanted?
I live in the Grove and I'm all for the 5am closings. It's part of the fun living in the Grove
i work in the Grove and have been coming here for over 20 years. i can say this with complete conviction; the energy and draw the Grove once had is gone. perception is reality. there are no clubs left. this has affected the restaurants. which in turn affects the retail stores. people go to what they know. and the city is forgeting the Grove. if the 3am closing isn't such a big deal, then lets have Brickell, South Miami and South Beach close at 3.
no other district would move to the 3 am closing. I understand why Sarnoff moved to the 3 am closings, but it has not worked. in fact quite the opposite. i have a simple idea. instead of all of this huffing and puffing, why not ask the merchants themselves. i have along with someone who is against the 5am closing and they want 5am back. if this Sarnoff isn't getting it, then i trust the next commissioner will. I know Michelle N gets it
Post a Comment
<< Home