Most don't agree with his vision for the Grove
Commissioner Marc Sarnoff and City Manager Pete Hernandez met with Grove merchants yesterday afternoon at The Bookstore. I think the whole town turned out for this meeting.
The main issues were the local code enforcement problems at bars and restaurants and of course the non-stop parking tickets being handed out all over the place.
I think people stopped listening to Marc Sarnoff when he said "his vision" for the Grove is "more food, less drink" and he used the word "upscale." You can almost see the boredom on their faces. People don't want upscale, people who live here and visit here love it for what it is -- funky -- and for what it isn't -- upscale. People want the Grove to be all inclusive and don't like this elitist attitude.
This upset most in the room. It appears as if his "vision" is to change the Grove from what it has been for the past 100 years and turn it into Naples or some other sleepy little town that rolls in the sidewalks at 8 pm.
The 3 am bar closings were addressed and that seems to be hurting many businesses to this day. Tomás, from New York Roma Pizza said his business is down 80%. Partly because of the way the economy is now and also because all those 3 am drinkers are now gone and not ordering pizza anymore.
When Comm. Sarnoff proudly brought up that the good news is that crime is down, many responded that crime is down because nobody is around anymore. The streets, bars and restaurants are dead. There is no one around to commit crime. Just the way he likes it, many suspect.
John El-Masry from Mr. Moe's and Christabelle's Quarter says he is on the verge of closing Christabelle's because he was able to subsidize it with monies from Mr. Moe's, but since the 3 am closing time and now with the Code Enforcement guys showing up in the middle of the night scaring customers away, business is bad.
He said that it's a very hostile environment for liquor sellers in the Grove. He is upset that "the rules are changing now in the middle of the game" and he would not have started up a business in the Grove if he knew the rules would change at whim.
Many felt that the midnight visits by Code Enforcement was out of line and not needed. Asking for licenses in the middle of the night in a forceful and belligerent manner while paying customers look on is very bad for business. And it embarrasses the customer, as well as the business owner.
Elliot Lavigne from Red Kiwi Frozen Yogurt and the Butter shoe store on Commodore Plaza (not to be confused with the Butter Gallery on Commodore) had a lot to say. For one thing, he told Comm. Sarnoff that the current stance on making UM students and any young people feel unwelcome is not right. He said that the Grove is discriminating against young people and that "We can't throw out the bad [young people] because we are getting old." And everyone applauded loudly.
Many felt that the authorities are actually telling the younger generation that they are not wanted, by their code enforcement actions. It appears as if Comm. Sarnoff wants the Grove to grow old with him (and us). Many felt we are not respecting the younger generation and not "passing the torch." The Grove will die without them.
The restaurants and bars fuel the economy in the Grove. There is a trickle down effect, where everyone benefits. When they suffer, all businesses suffer.
Pete Hernandez wisely said that people who live near the entertainment zone need to take a chill pill. (My words, not his), but basically, if you move into an entertainment zone, which has been an entertainment zone since the 1800s, you should expect to hear some noise.
I honestly think this was just a venting match and that not much will be accomplished. I think most complaints went in one ear and out the other. Come election time we will see how people feel. I think most feel that they want the Grove to be the Grove and not Bal Harbour or Key Biscayne.
Photos by AnnaMaria Windisch-Hunt
posted by Tom Falco at 9:30 AM
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44 Comments:
King Sarnoff needs to do what the taxpayers want. Not what he wants.
Good to see that at least this meeting happened and local people had a chance to voice their concerns. There should be more meetings, business owners and Grove residents, every one.. some organization and even a marketing effort before the election. Some sort of Grove Village Vote or Consensus or several basic issues. Then we could drill our common views into City Hall.
I would like to see it move more upscale myself so I don't think there is universal agreement we need to continue in the direction of party central. I think funky is good.
Just remember we are competing with Mary Brickell Village which is very clean, upscale (even if you don't like that word) and very trendy South Beach has a lot to offer also. We can still be hip but we do need clean and trendy. We also need the police to ease up on parking. If we have no people in the Grove, they won't even get any money in their meters.
I bet if there was a widespread vote in the Grove, or EVEN in the entire City of Miami, all of our Visitors, the vast majority of the people would vote to keep the Grove as it has always been, a special king of Village, full of Art, local, unique shops, outdoor cafe's, plenty of night life, until 5am, Full of people of all Ages, and Young people partying at night in orderly fashion, live Music, etc.
A very small minority of older people and Stiffs like Sarnoff would vote for a boring "upscale", nerdy, preppy, quiet, empty and Plastic Grove, with no night life, no special local stores, just another freaking Mall.
Keep up the good work, Sarnoff, and most original local businesses, restaurants and bars will shut down, the young crowd and everyone will go to south Beach or elsewhere, and the Grove will become a boring, deserted place for the wealthy, elderly and snobbish people.
LET ME SAY IT LOUD AND CLEAR.....NEVER RE-ELECT ANYBODY. AGAIN .....NEVER RE-ELECT ANYBODY. Y'ALL GOT THAT !
when is snaroff up for relection? Do we have the power of a recall election?
Let it be known ....your voices can be heard at the voting booth come election time. Email those in office whose ' vision' of the Grove is at odds with the rest of us that our memories aren,t short .
to anon 11:32am......couldn,t have said it better myself....
GET RID OF SARNOFF....HE,S WORTHLESS...A WEAK SNOB LOVER...UPSCALE THIS! SARNOFF
"Let it be known ....your voices can be heard at the voting booth come election time. Email those in office whose ' vision' of the Grove is at odds with the rest of us that our memories aren,t short "
Really? Try e-mailing Sarnoff and other "officials".. I have, on numerous occasions, of course in a very appropriate and respectful tone, and about Specific Grove issues. NOTHING, zero replies from him, or several other clowns that are supposed to be representing us in the House, etc, at all levels.
The only one who ever had the decency to reply a couple times was Cement Manny, so at least I give him that, but it was only about an issue he favored. Didn't reply about other issues he didn't like as much..
These guys don't care, don't listen, don't reply. See what Sarnoff does after this Bookstore meeting last night: never to dare attend to another one and be exposed to public opinion.. Then continue to push his Snobbish agenda on the Grove.
This grotesque misrepresentation will of course continue until the Grove becomes its own City.
King Sarnoff will eventually be gone, the Grove will always be here. Long live the Grove!!!
Who thinks guys like Sarnoff, or any of our so-called "Grove elected officials" read this blog regularly, And read the comment section? A true, diligent representative of the interests of District 3, Our Village, would read this blog Religiously, to see what's going on in our neighborhood, what people on the Know think..
I doubt their ever do. Do they walk the Streets here, once in a while, and talk to people, business owners, residents, local associations? Hardly Ever.
They all read the Grapevine and guote it at every meeting. Sarnoff was repeating many comments posted here over the past week yesterday. One cop at the meeting was also talking about what was written in the Grapevine word for word.
I,m 71years old...bought a home here 12 years ago because I love being around young people...who love music and dance and fun loving things. You "old" Farts need to take your damn hearing aids out when you go to bed at 9pm and you won,t be bothered by the rest of us who love the Grove and it,s atmosphere....and to those in power who want to change it , I VOTE and have a following here and they VOTE ....your days are numbered !
to anon 12:17.....you bet they read the 'VINE'.
more upscale? i find the grove upscale enough, if not too upscale. restaurant and drink prices are already quite over the top.
no people around? duh. its a recession and prices are too steep. the owners haven't awoken to the financial realities and would like to continue business as usual. wont work. lower prices and people will come.
Good to know they read the Grape.
What they DO about the specific issues constantly raised here is another matter, though.
Tell'em Anon 12:22 !!!!!!!
Sarnoff certainly doesn't share my vision.
My vision is that the Grove has a "Window on the Bay," not gigantic office buildings.
My vision is city money used responsibly, not poured into the pockets of billionaire baseball team owners.
I have a long memory, and for now on for elections it is ABS, Anyone But Sarnoff.
For all you people that are saying vote him out when the time comes..I totally agree. Problem is--he MADE SURE to make the comment in the meeting that he'll be around for 3 more years.
there is upscale and there is expensive. right now the grove is fun, but expensive, although it's not as bad as the beach. let's keep it fun and not worry so much about upscale. Remember Ft. Laud almost went broke when they got rid of Spring Break in favor of "family" fun. Upscale just means higher taxes for the city.
Grape, you are certainly on a Holy Roll lately, and I agree with all of it. You are right on.
I am glad that Comm. Sarnoff thinks that crime is down. I don't believe it. My car gets broken into (I don't bother to lock the doors anymore-- its cheaper to not have to replace a window) at least once if not twice a month up here in the N. Grove.
And yes, sadly, we are going to have to deal with Sarnoff for another three years.
Maybe he should just resign. His legacy is secure with his "grandfather" and a circle named after him. His house(s) are certainly upscale.
What more could a local hack want?
There is already an "upscale" Grove, it is called Coral Gables.
It is concerning to me that so much effort is spent on trying to "face-lift" an area many people dont want changed while there extremely serious issues in Village West that are seemingly ignored. The crime that concerns me is not people getting out of the bars at 3 am and being obnoxious- it is what happened down the street ten minutes before the hellicopters come buzzing over our homes.
"My car gets broken into (I don't bother to lock the doors anymore-- its cheaper to not have to replace a window) at least once if not twice a month up here in the N. Grove."
Anon 1:39, where about does your car get constantly broken into in the North Grove? For those of us who live there, you don't have to be too specific, general area, public places? Thanks
Anon 12:17,
You give a pretty good rant about elected officials getting to know the Grove but you yourself seem to think "Our Village" is in District 3. That would be Joe Sanchez's turf, not Sarnoff's.
Here's a hint...when you're blowing off steam, it's best to try to foster the impression that you know what you're talking about.
I am a young grove resident by that I mean I'm 22, I love to go out, and I love living in a village like community. My best memories from being in college are nights out in the grove with my friends, dirty bars cheap beer, fun times!
I resent the new "upscale" places that wont let my boyfriend in because he is wearing shorts, and flip flops. "Give me a break!", I told the bouNcer "this is the mother F*%#ing GROVE!"
I could not afford to go out if all the bars were like that new club on top of the mayfair. Besides who needs that place, give me Sandbar and Barracudas anyday!
Long live the funky, fun, affordable, welcoming, exciting GROVE!
Thanks for the summary, Grape. This is good stuff even if its mostly venting.
"More food, less drink, upscale" is a recipe for less customers. Regardless of what Sarnoff's Babylonian view of the Grove is, Mr. Lavigne is exactly right. You cant throw out the college kids. They are 50% of the Grove whether people want to believe that or not. The other 50% is made up of artists, former (or current) hippies, yuppies, etc, who also make the Grove "the Grove". Both groups are part of what makes the Grove original. Catering to the locals with upscale jaunts is just filling a cookie cutter mold a la Brickell, Coral Gables, SoBe, etc. That line of thinking also eliminates college kids and the money they dump into our community. How many college kids do you think hang out at Merrick Park? Exactly.
The restaurants and bars fuel the economy in the Grove. There is a trickle down effect, where everyone benefits. When they suffer, all businesses suffer.
Right on, Grape. This is especially true in the Grove. Hell, we even have a "Taste of the Grove" event every year. The CG Art Fest is also an all day drinking and eating binge centered around art. Hopefully the Code Enforcement stuff will subside and sidewalk dining and heat lamps (for the 2-3 weeks they are actually used) will be allowed to continue to flourish.
Pete Hernandez is also right. If you live near a central business district in a CITY, you should expect to hear noise. Eventually they will have to learn to block it out. I have neighbors whose dogs constantly bark when they arent home and that leaves me with 2 choices. I can bitch about it and get myself all angry, knowing full well there is no way to stop it, or I can just ignore as best as I can because in the grand scheme of things its really not that important. I choose to ignore.
I also agree with Anon @ 1:57pm that the West Grove sure could use some TLC.
Not for nothing, but I think the Grove has seen some positive change in 2008. Sure, its been a roller coaster but I think there have been more ups that downs. Hopefully 2009 is even better.
If you don't like your representative, it's not too soon to find someone willing to run against him, and who shares your views. It's not enough to "vote against" one person -- there must be an alternative, and finding someone willing to step up and run - and then serve - isn't all that easy.
The sooner you start laying the groundwork, finding a viable candidate, giving him (or her) time to gain exposure, to speak up and be heard, to gather a following, volunteers who will be willing to work in a campaign - the better! Three years is not a long time in politics.
Dear Visionary,
Shouldn't your vision be our vision? None of the elected or appointed representatives at that meeting own a business in the grove. Nor have any of thier paychecks been affected by this economy. Our's have! Give us a break! Work with us not against us. This can work if we have better communication. I would hate to see the next three years wasted on arguments about who is right and wrong.
"December 18, 2008 2:36 PM"
My Kind of Lady!!
And, Mr Criticism:\\
December 18, 2008 2:34 PM.,
Instead of cherry picking about District 2/3 and their commissionners, of course Sarnoff is supposed to represent our District, why don't you offer your wisdom and original ideas, solutions and what not? I really despise cherry pickers with absolutely nothing to contribute to a healthy debate..
I understand the nostalgia for a 1960s and 1970s era Grove. I think most who support this are in their 60's. However, there has to be a way to preserve the "funkiness" and create a place that's hospitable to live in. The late-night noise, trash along the roads, loud cars and motorcycles, etc., are NOT fun or "funky". They are annoying. I say, have your 'funky' times until 3:00am and then go back to Kendall or Hialeah and get some sleep. Some of us actually have to work during the day.
"LET ME SAY IT LOUD AND CLEAR.....NEVER RE-ELECT ANYBODY. AGAIN .....NEVER RE-ELECT ANYBODY. Y'ALL GOT THAT !"
Will you apply this same standard to Obama in 4 years?!?
@ Whizzle fo Shizzle, I agree. I'm 25 and would hate to see the Grove become deadened by empty store fronts and early closing times due to these new policies. I can't believe I voted for Sarnoff, and his measures so far are transforming the Grove into something I would never want! Who cares about college kids partying 'til 5am or your damn traffic control devices! What about the open drug dealing, gunpoint robberies, and car theft that goes on in West Grove where I live, problems that are seeping over into entertainment/tourist areas of the Grove? Why does this REAL crime persist, but meanwhile, we can rest assured that people are maintaining the speed limit thanks to poorly designed traffic circles, or that serial parking meter offenders are getting cracked down upon.
I have seen larger cities and many instances like this one around the country. They were all eventually successful. They all had one thing in common. They actually realized that they did not have the experience neccessary to turn around the current issues and hired outside consultants. Yes, people that have actually done this before. Not people that are throwing darts at ideas on a board... Hey, lets try this...
Anonymous @ 1:39....Sarnoff stated that crimes was down. Exactly that DOWN, he did not say zero crime in the grove therefore, some incidents like your are liable to happen and believe it in comparison with the rest of the city, CRIME IN THE GROVE IS DOWN......
Sarnoff is vindictive and two faced. He tries to appease a few of us in the Grove, but is as bad as, or maybe just the same, as the Mayor in most of the rest of the quadrant. At best, he's the vote for something we want, only when he knows his won't matter and it will go through. A good arrangement with Manny. Looks good to grove, Manny gets what he wants.
I attended the non-meeting yesterday between Grove merchants and Comm. Sarnoff and City Manager Hernandez. I believe I was the sole resident/non-merchant at the meeting. Today, I was out posting King Mango Strut posters and spoke to some of the attendees at yesterday's meeting I asked each of them if they got anything out of the meeting, and they unanimously said, "NO."
I agree. Nothing was accomplished there, except the message that the "City" is not acting in the best interest of Coconut Grove merchants. Without the merchants, Coconut Grove, as a destination, will die a painful death. The Grove has been known for many years as a place to come to party Well, parties are no longer welcomed, according to what was expressed yesterday by city officials.
When people buy residences in an urban community, filled with businesses selling entertainment, then the residents have to take responsibility for their own decision. If you chose to live in the heart of an urban community, then there's going to be noise, traffic, vagrants, and trash, along with all the appeal of having this wonderful world at your doorstep.
Mr. Sanoff''s "vision" does not fit with the merchant's, nor with mine If I want to live in a Lake Worth type of town, I'll move to Lake Worth. I chose Coconut Grove because of the excitement, music, and cabaret atmosphere. I moved here at 40, and now I'm 61, and I am so overjoyed at being able to walk to a place that people travel hundreds, and even thousands of miles to visit. Yes, I am a Coconut Grove snob, and proud to be in 33133. I love the contrast of the vagrant and the millionaire sharing the same space. That's what used to make The Taurus the most unique bar on the planet. It was the differences, not the similarities among the patrons, that gave it appeal.
I would much rather see the residents complaining of noise and traffic move, than see the merchants close their doors. We can always fill the homes, but the retail spaces are animals of a different color. Without them, we are not Coconut Grove We are Anywhere, U.S.A.... and I don't want to live there!
TO ANON 8:32 PM......YOU DAMN RIGHT. I,D ADD ONE MORE YEAR ..MAKE IT FIVE. THAT,S MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANTED TO DO....THEN MOVE THE 'F' ON !
Marc Sarnoff is a preacher. Preach Preach Preach. Why did we vote for him because he never portayed his true self. We do not have to vote for him again. His staff is the worst Comm. staff ever. He could have picked more bumbling people to represent. It's embarrassing.
I remember the hearings to discuss stopping liquor sales after 3:00 am. The vast majority of the speakers were in favor of "no liquor after 3:00 am". Comm Sarnoff was following the will of the people.
I wouldn't come back to live anywhere near that commercialized mess called Coconut Grove now if you paid me.
You were all pissed off at Johnny Winton....but at least you knew he would never shut down the bars!
When you talk about Sarnoff's staff, one should take note of the arrogant, un-qualidied puppet that he has running the BIC (soon to be BID), David Collins. I would hope that the new board of the BID, which will be mostly Sarnoff's people, will have enough courage to hire a true professinal to be the Executive Director, not someone who has a business called Out of Africa, which is were David Collins should spend most of his time.
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